Lionheart Creations - Trinidad TB-21 Released

Another day, another trick!
made a short flight from KSBA (about 20 Ft) to KMHV (about 2800 Ft).
Just after touchdown, throttle at idle, the engine stalled. The plane stopped in the middle of the runway, and no way to restart the engine.
Fuel OK, everything OK, pushing the throttle 1/3 allow to run the engine, but taxiing becomes complicate and as soon as I’m idle, stall…
Back to MSFS main page, quit the game, restart and try to proceed a cold start directly at KMHV. No way, the engine stalls shortly after a few seconds.
Same test at KSBA, and no problem, engine keeps turning as long as I don’t shut it down.
One more test at LFLJ (6500 Ft), unable to start the engine.
Don’t even want to know what would happen at FL 210 if by accident I pull the throttle to idle…

Did this happen to anyone?

I had a flight KBUR → KSAN and had the electrical shut down issue.
I had a KLAS - KBUR, longer flight without an issue.

The alternator not be set…? Must be something at start-up…? in flight…?

Well, it’s a well admited rule that under 3000 Ft mixture lever is rich and I think that it applies as well during a cold start as during a flight. I’ve made a test with mixture lever about 80% but to no avail. The engine runs a few seconds before stalling.
My only mod for this plane is Moulinsart’s which I’ve been using for some monthes now without any problem.
Apart from that one issue, my only remanent problem is to be obliged to [ctrl] +E to run the engine, turning on the dynamos keyring is useless. But until now since I acquired the trinidad, I’ve always been taking off and landing from /to sea-level airports…

It seems to be a problem of fuel/air ratio at low rpm’s, which disappear above 1000 rpm.
Anyhow, removing the mod I mentioned in a previous post solved the problem. Whatever the altitude of the airport, with mixture full rich, the engine starts and keeps turning steadily.

Oh you mean mine ? You should have PM’d me either here or on flightsim … I would have looked into it earlier. I may have a solution, I’ll check this.

Edit: Ok, if you have the issue where the plane stalls when throttle is at idle, load the mod’s “engines.cfg” file (not the one from the official plane !) into a text editor, look for the string

idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1

and replace it with the line :

idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.2

That should be enough, but if it still happens you can increase the value to 1.3.
No need to regenerate the layout.json file.

I’ll update the mod when I can anyway.

Btw this will keeps the engine from stalling at idle ; if you can’t start the plane that’s another issue, that I absolutely cannot reproduce here.

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Hello!
Thanks for your answer.

Yes, I could have … Fact is, I don’t like to bother people, especially when I can benefit freely from their hard work and experience. And I’m sorta very patient!

It worked fine, no stall at idle on an airport at 6500 Ft. Problem solved!

I assume you’re pointing to my [ctrl]+E comment earlier, I read early in this year some posts from LHC about that bug, apparently quite random, some people are affected and some are not. Everytime I download and install a new release of the TB-21, the first cold start works fine with the dynamos keyring, and after that, it’s pointless. Well, not a great affair anyway. But I’m sure you know all that well better than me :wink:
Thanks again anyway, I’m going back to this uncommon plane.

The TB-21 is now in the in-game marketplace.

I have purchased and downloaded what was supposed to be version 4.2.1 from just flight. However it seems like it’s only 4.1. the external light issue is still there, no rain effects etc. Can someone confirm if they have the same issue?

Sounds like the latest updates have really fixed up a lot of issues this plane had early on.

Does the GTN750 work with the Trinidad yet? I have the GTN750 in my Mooney replacing the 530/430 combo (which I believe the Trinidad has too, I don’t own it yet).

Externally you can’t see landing or taxi lights. I have tried to get hold of these guys through their website and no response in two days. Pretty disappointing.

Picked up the Trinidad the other day. I was waiting for it to be available from the in-game marketplace since I run MSFS on three different workstations at different locations. One marketplace purchase and it’s on all three machines.

I was also waiting to see if the many complaints and problems with the initial release got sorted.

The wait was worth it. Good visuals and a nice handling, fast touring airplane. It’s slippery enough you need to be careful since it typically cruises well above its design maneuvering speed. And plan ahead, you’ll need some time to slow it down when landing. The trim wheel is your friend. It’s well behaved at pattern speed and during flare and rollout, but don’t carry excess speed or it will float a bit down the runway.

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I am only getting this strange color on the wings on the TB-21





that’s with all the liveries.

^^^^
video

I flew a couple short hops today and the textures/ colors on the wings were normal.

Unfortunately no screens were grabbed.

I have a theory that this is an MSFS bug that can also cause black tiles on the terrain. It looks like the sim for some reason believes it shouldn’t need to fully/properly render to the full edge of the screen. I have no idea if this will work, but maybe try playing around with resolution scaling, for example move it up then back down or the other way.

I will try it., but this issue is only happening when I use that specific aircraft..

(messed around with the settings., and figured out the cause.
Raymarched Reflections is the culprit., and it seems to only affect the TB-21.
When I turn it off., no longer seeing the problem on the TB-21.

For $25 I would expect more, Carenado planes are priced more or less the same, although not being study level their exterior and interior models are at least realistic. Having flown this aircraft extensively in real life, it just doesn’t look like a TB20-21.

I saw some videos on Youtube of that plane. I have 1500 or so hours on TB- serie aircraft. It doesn’t look quite right, the cockpit panels have the basic shapes but thats basically where comparison with the real aircraft ends, the exterior model is off and the systems aren’t fully simulated.

Compare this:

To this:

Cooling inlets are way too big, especially from the front the model looks completely wrong. The air intake and filter is too small. There are contours visible of a ram air intake on the side, at the location a TB-10 would have the engine air intake, the TB-20/21 doesn’t have anything there, its also way to big. The TB-20 does NOT have a nose landing gear door other than a tiny little plate fixed to the strut. The bottom of the plane is too flat. The stabilizer does not sit on top of the tailcone like that. Size and shape of the trim tab is way off. The real aircraft has the engine installed at an angle (to compensate for slipstream effect).

The main landing gear does not fully retract into the wing center box, instead there should be a wing fearing making the plane a little more “fat” looking, the bottom of the plane should be more rounded compared to the flat bottom panel of the TB-9 or TB-10, also the wings need a little more dihedral?

TB-20/21:

TB-10:

It claims to be a GT but the cockpit is that of a regular TB-20/21. Also not quite though, everything is way too round, also the pre-GT versions don’t look like that.

GT cockpit:

And then I’m not going into the details, I already loads of errors in the annunciator panel, red lights being green, at wrong places etc. Landing gear lever is an small switch type lever, not a slot. Rudder trim knob is at the wrong position. You can’t start with mixture full rich without flooding the engine in real life. I doubt the flight model is any better than the rest of the model.

Its basically a Socata TB-10 (pre-GT) exterior model with way too large air cooling intakes and a retractable landing gear slapped on.

There was a JF version for X-plane including the TB-10 and TB-20, the TB-20 was awesome, the TB-10 was just a copy of the TB-20 model where they welded the gear down. They didn’t even bother to shorten the nose (TB-10 has a shorter nose), the air inlet for injection engine was still there (TB-10 is carbureted). The TB-10 was a big disappointment. This seems to be the opposite, TB-10 model made into a TB-20.

@LyonHaart001

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Its far from realistic, see above.

Not really, especially the nose looks nothing like the real TB-20/21.

^^ As said in the Seneca V post, have you posted that to the developer ?

On your comments : Carenado planes and this one are really “close” in terms of what you can do with the plane in the sim. BUT this one is more close to POH in terms of what you get in the sim again, compared to the Seneca V, the Seminole or the (really bad) M20R Ovation (really broken now)…

Also, more of the gauges in this plane are working compared to Carenado’s planes.

If you want updates on the plane write to the studio :slight_smile:

3 answers in a row (and cross-posting…) also is not very “internet-compliant” :wink: Just edit your 1st post and add to it :slight_smile: You are looking like you are ranting and not any more informing…

And about the absent turbo behavior : it is in the hands of Asobo to make their FMD correct, not the work of Lionheart (nor Carenado for what matters).

Finally : I would recommand the mods for that plane (on flightsim.to).

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Not from what I have seen, wrong controls, stuff at wrong places, a GT version with a pre-GT cockpit, thats not close to POH I would say. I don’t own the plane, I saw some reviews on Youtube and within the first second saw how weird the model looks compared to the real aircraft, so decided not to buy it. The JustFlight TB-20 for X-plane was magnificent (while the TB-10 was disappointing), if they would ever port that one over to MSFS I would but it in a heartbeat. I tagged (what I believe is the) developer in my first post. I spend already way too much time on this topic but w’ll see what is gonna happen with it.

Since I was already so deep into it in the other thread I decided to look for an official thread for this aircraft to copy it to, it initially wasn’t my intention to comment on this plane at all. Yes I am ranting a bit, I don’t understand people with clearly no knowledge about this plane saying it is realistic and good looking.

I wasn’t the one complaining about that, I am aware of this issue.