Long wait for Physics fixes

We have seen many updates. However some aspects of the physics are in dire need of fixing:

  • Rolling resistance fix (before aircraft begins taxi)
  • Ground handling / friction modelling fix (takeoff / landing - and trying to maintain center line etc)
  • Landing forces fix (should have a bit of a ‘cushion’ effect as air bounces from runway back up to aircraft)

I know graphics far surpass X Plane, but the X Plane physics are more real.

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You might want to try asking about this in the upcoming Dev Q&A Questions forum?

Not to open a whole new debate, but coming from FSX, I find the ground physics quite decent in MSFS. I mean, there clearly is friction now, unlike in FSX where aircraft would seemingly slide sideways across the runway when landing in a crosswind, and had practically no jolt or change in direction when touching down in a crab from the sideways friction imparted by the tyres. They also didn’t seem to have any movement in their gear oleos. Then there was the pure sinusoidal ‘wave’ that was used to simulate bumpy ground when taxiing on grass, which was laughable. That’s all gone in MSFS, thankfully.

Which aircraft have rolling resistance issues? I find getting aircraft moving on a slight uphill slope takes a lot of power, otherwise no real issues.

I agree with your first two points, but ground effect has always been present and feels pretty good to me. I’m not sure there is anything to adjust there.

Some of them are a little too weighty… The C172 specifically seems to take a lot of power to keep it rollling on a flat taxiway.

Its less of a problem with 3rd party planes, so I don’t think its actually the sim that isn’t correct. I think the Asobo planes are just a little wonky.

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That’s not how ground effect works but got the point.

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I think a bigger problem is crosswind handling, giving too much or too little ailerons creates an uneven load on the wheels causing the aircraft to yaw, completely overdone. The transition from air to ground and vice versa when leaving the ground causes a weird change in yaw if there is crosswind.

The new CFD model on the C172 makes the aircraft to behave really weird in stall / spin situations to the point GTA V has better dynamics in this regime.

When giving manual input with AP ON the yoke in the sim moves in opposite direction, it’s possible to steer through the autopilot, lots of flaws there.

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Agreed - still a lot of work needs to be on the ground handling if MSFS is to simulate any more than landing on a frozen, ice covered runway.

Currently, Its probably one of most badly simulated area of the sim :-1:

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Ground handling is a bit like X Plane 11.00. It had serious issues with swerving across the runway. It was worse than MSFS actually. But around about update 11.30 it was improved a lot. By now landing in XP and maintaining the center line is much improved.

The ground handling is definitely borked in MSFS… But, let me be really clear here, one of the biggest problems is that the rudder sensitivity by default is excessive. Dial it down a bit or at least give it a curve so intitial off center movements are dampened a bit.

The other big problem is people expecting decent rudder control with a twist stick or a relatively basic cheap set of pedals. Good equipment utterly ends the rudder pedal dance. You don’t need to spend huge, but get something with Hall Effect sensors and you’re 80% of the way there.

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That’s just a bandaid solution. The real issue is that the friction has not been implemented properly. You only need to release the brake and a lot of aircraft start moving and too quickly. Real life rolling resistance will not allow that. You have to step on the gas more to get going. I think it’s time for these points to be addressed. Because the perception is still that MSFS feels Gamey.

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And others take far too much… But I’m not sure why you took my paragraph about steering sensitivity to quote and you’re talking about break-away power. They aren’t necessarily the same problem.

The C172 for instance takes too much power to get moving and keep moving. But a lot of 3rd party planes break away power is correct, such as the FBW A32NX which will move at idle and slowly accelerate, several real world A320 pilots have said this is true of the real plane, and reasonably accurate in the FBW.

So thats down to aircraft… The Asobo stuff is weird, as I mentioned. But a lot of 3rd parties get it right (like Just Flight, FBW and various others). Thus, it doesn’t seem to be a problem with the sim.

HOWEVER, the excessive weather-vaning (on the ground) appears to definitely be a problem with tire lateral friction and it is repeatable across pretty much all aircraft regardless of Asobo or 3rd Party, so that problem does seem to be in the core sim.

Adjusting rudder sensitivity absolutely IS a band-aid, as you pointed out. But wearing a bandage while you heal is way smarter than complaining about getting blood all over your couch right? A bandage is what you do while you wait for the Doctor to come fix the sim :wink:

Very good points.
Please make a poll for each subject. I will vote for every one of them, as will many other folks.

I have not checked the polls. I figure these kind of things should already be on the developers radar. From what I can tell they want this to be known as a true simulation. However I do see some aspects which feel gamey.

Agreed - was just noticing last night that the amount of power to get rolling is too high, and once you’re rolling it feels like your momentum is waaay too much, and you have to ride the brakes more than you should. ( obviously, varies per plane - but in general it feels off )

and it’s been brought up a bunch, but the crosswind + ground friction issues… very little wind correction needed on final, but when your wheels are fully down - then you start weathervaning like crazy on the runway? nah.

Also, since it was mentioned above - it feels like certain planes roll ( axis ) excessively when fully on the ground - CRJ is a prime candidate, if you’re on the rudder during the takeoff roll, it feels like the plane is rolling to the L or R, with all wheels contacting the ground.

This might be correct as it’s a swept wing aircraft the effective chord increases on one wing when yawing while it decreases on the other wing. Not saying it is realistic but I would expect it to roll more than a straight wing when yawing.

I need to do more testing on the rest of the standard fleet, but during the CFD testing for the 172 it was discovered that the crosswind aileron inputs on landing caused dramatic difference in braking effectiveness, hence the crazy “weathervaning” into the upwind wing on landing. Just blanking out the ailerons on landing made a considerable difference in how strong a wind CFD 172 could land with.

interesting, yeah - i haven’t dug in and tried to reproduce the issues, it’s just very noticeable a lot of the time

Currently, the only plane that seems to not suffer from wonky ground handling is the Milviz C310R. I can’t speak from experience because (as you already know), I’m not a pilot and base my view solely on seeing tons of real aviation videos on YouTube. I never see any of them struggling to maintain the centre line as badly as I am in MSFS. I don’t know what they did, but whatever it is, it works well. I can generally maintain the taxiway centre line without much effort, whereas with pretty much any other plane, I’m pretty sure I look like a drunk navigating the plane down the taxiway.

The Carenado Mooney used to have excellent ground handling as well. It used to be by far the best. But when they launched their update that made it Xbox compatible, it seems their ground handling went down the ■■■■■■■ and it became just as squirrely on the ground as any of the other planes.

Well then, CONGRATULATIONS to Milviz, for figuring out how to make ground handling so much improved.

(1) What did they DO to achieve this ?
(2) Will they share that knowledge openly and voluntarily with other Devs & the community ?

#2 will make them the “Good Guys

Of course, it is a pretty simple matter to see what parameters they came up with in the Flight Model to achieve the more stable ground handling, but it sure would be nice if they embraced sharing that information.

I don’t know what they did, but whatever it is, it works reasonably well.

And yes, if you know what the different parameters in the cfg files do, it should be reproducible with other planes as well.