Looking for recommendations for a third party taildragger

Tiger Moth - it’s fantastic, just missing cockpit wind noise - FI Spitfire ( and I guess some people will recommend other FI output ) is good fun, and the default Beaver, honestly. I have the //42 Kitfox & it feels dead, like a drone, which is unfortunately a common issue atm. I’m hearing good things about the Wilga.

I’m assuming he meant yaw - no ground looping is a bit of an issue, someone mentioned in another thread that the FI Hellcat had some progress in that area. The game’s ground physics are primitive, wheels are points so unless it’s sitting stationary, a plane is always flying even if it’s a series of microscopic hop.s.

Yes, based on reports from the DC-3 where they are complaining that the rudder isn’t effective enough, my bet is in fact the issue is the wheel / ground contact / friction simulation is the actual culprit, just as you say.

Asobo said they did some work on ground friction, but, I don’t know what they did or how effective it was.

I really really wish ground physics worked better. On top of that the ground effect physics also seems off (but not as badly as ground physics).

1 Like

I’ll admit that getting the math right at a level that doesn’t impact performance is not an easy problem to solve. But, yes, it’s soooo important and I do hope they get it done effectively. For me, this is one of the highest priority items I’d like to see solved. Taking off and landing is one of the most fun things about flying for me and I really want to see it work properly.

Cloud graininess and color, eh, I don’t really care if they ever make it “better”, I’m happy with it as it is there.

1 Like

There are plenty of multi-point tyre libraries around now even if they’re just to study, it doesn’t need to be racing-sim accurate :slight_smile:

I do actually want much less blobby cloud - have a look at the edges of real cumulus next itme one goes over - but yes decent ground handling is as important given I fly taildraggers a lot.

Exactly it just needs to be good enough that there is some semblance of realistic behaviour in crosswind takeoffs and landings. I was testing this the other day, set wind to 20kts right across (90 degrees) the runway. Then try to roll with C172. I couldn’t keep it on the centreline whilst on the ground even with full rudder deflection. As it accelerates you’d expect the rudder to become more effective but it doesn’t feel that way. I could be wrong but it seems like they fudged something and it’s producing odd effects.

“It just needs” is pretty vague and addresses neither the bounds of the problem or its complexity. And saying it doesn’t make the problem any easier to solve. If it was easy, it would be done, since they already released one level of fix for it in either SU9 or 10.

There’s a reason racing sim accuracy is required in racing sims. Given what’s going on, we’re talking a dynamic change going on at the non-zero amount of time between the tire handling the sideways and other loads and not (in the case of a cross-wind) and the changing friction and force vectors as the tires compress over that range from point of contact to full weight on the tire and vice versa, that gives real world dynamics their real world feel. And then do you also change those calculations for the various types of tires available? I’d say it’s as least as complex a situation as racing cars experience.

The problem with the original FSX solution is, there’s friction, then there’s not at take off, and reverse on landing, and who knows if they are calculating that at each tire or the plane as a single item (I don’t)? Hence the sudden change in force resultants. And why does the plane weathervane so much on landing? Seems like it is (was?) resolved to a single point of contact calculation of forces? I don’t know, I haven’t done the math or know what their actual algorithm is.

I also don’t know what the forces on the aircraft solving frequency is, and is it fast enough to capture the physics as the tires touch or leave the runway? I imagine that information is available in the SDK.

I’m not saying it’s an impossible problem, just not necessarily easy, or, rather, the easy solution obviously doesn’t work…

Currently it’s single point per wheel unless something snuck in since the last time I studied it - however with the way collision detection works that can quite often just mean the plane is hopping as long as it’s moving, unless there’s a fudge factor ( ie, at least allow for tyre compression.when you’re calculating if you’re on the ground or not… ).

You don’t need racing sim levels of precision in grip, it doesn’t matter if the tyre compounds are subtly different or your dampers are slightly stiffer, things that are fndamental to racing. Air pressure will probably matter but how many people change their aircraft’s tyre air pressure? I’m guessing just bush guys. What does matter is how much weight is on wheels, tyres are actually permanently on the ground until they’re not, and some idea of surface conditions ( now that is a complicated area, yes ). And perhaps tyres blowing out if you land too hard! aircraft don’t corner with their wheels, meanwhile racing is all about maximising corner grip, and that is a lot of dynamics.

Incidetntally the Wilga is great.

DC designs stearman - just throwing it out there as I love this for low and slow

Cross-wind takeoff and landing dynamics?

I just believe that the dynamic force vector changes at takeoff and especially landing make the problem pretty complex, and the I think the varying resistance as the tire transitions to not touching/touching is also complex and necessary for proper physics, and Jorg has said as much in the Q&A’s. But I’m no expert on the subject.

Still don’t need the sort of fidelity a racing tyre needs. Just needs to handle side-loads in something approaching a realistic manner.

1 Like

Enough said, but, I disagree. It’s not just a touching/not touching problem. Tried that, doesn’t work.

The Ant’s Airplanes Tiger Moth is one of the best planes in the sim to me. It has a fantastic flight model.

Second that, it’s so slow and rolls like a pig but just has so much character. I’ve been trying out some aerobatics with it recently, they even link to a great guide in the manual.

It’s also great for learning how to handle taildraggers during takeoffs and landings. I’ve gotten pretty good at my 3 point landings, even in reasonable crosswinds.

3d Modelling is great (could use some better textures in areas though), has engine management and for extra fun, unbind your brake axis for more authentic ground handling.

The Tiger definitely likes being shaken by the tail… rudder gets it rolling as easily ( or more easily ) than ailerons sometimes. I’m glad there’s more fans of it.