Major issues with turbulence - seriously unrealistic!

I agree with this, the base core foundation should be aiming for full realism. That means the wind modelling needs to be as realistic as possible as the base foundation of the code.

Then we dial things on the Assist settings, like simply having 3 settings for Wind Realism as “Realistic, Medium, and Easy”. Where Easy should be a simple straight wind modelling and constant no gust for each of the weather “blocks”.

That way, the simulation engine still uses the realistic weather model and flight dynamics as a core, but there’s still an option for beginners to start learning to fly in a much more control and stable environment to mute those effects.

8 Likes

We agree 100%. I don’t know what you think I’m missing.

My post was in response to outrage that Asobo were even considering an way to make it easier for newbies to understand what was going on. I only explained that I would welcome it as an option so the rest of us we could have max realism.

1 Like

Critical mass for sales is already passed on PC. They need to get that on XBOX now and make as much money as possible. That’s why the main focus right now is on all things XBOX (and DX12 for PC as a side effect) and more “gamey” aspects to appeal to the mass public. That’s why more hardcore simmer / PC-centric features (like multiple monitor support) are on the back burner until next year. This isn’t by accident. It’s by design.

Once that’s over with (another year or so), the demographic that will be keeping MSFS alive for the rest of its life cycle will be mostly PC simmers vs XBOX gamers (although some simmers who can’t afford high end PCs will definitely be using XBOX long-term). You can bet at that point, the old “sim for simmers” mantra that was touted so many times in the year before launch will be back in force.

To be clear, I’m not slagging Microsobo for this. They don’t do thing for US. They do things that will maximize their profits. It’s how business works.

3 Likes

Yeah, I get it, but what prevented them from creating settings. If you want the sim, you get the sim, if you want arcade, you get arcade. That’s how it works in previous sims.

3 Likes

Yup. You’ll get no argument from me on that.

1 Like

Thanks everyone for the invaluable feedback and discussion, I’ve tried to summarize the related observations. I hope we manage to get concrete response and planned resolution from the developers.

Sim update 4 - weather effect on aerodynamics:

  • Ridge lift - exists
  • Turbulence doesn’t impact pitch and roll axises, highly unrealistic
  • Thermals - exists but only relatively close to the ground. Also, not as strong as IRL .
  • Thermals “Albedo” effect is still not implemented ( per developers, to be implemented in the future)
  • Turbulence in clear air and in clouds (SU4) - severely limited and weak
  • Updraft/downdraft velocity - limited to 1000ft/min ( per developers )
  • Gusts are totally broken…

Anything else missing to a “TLDR” summary?

5 Likes

I actually doubt vertical drafts exist at all. Will submit a bug report with the link to this thread later today. Developers may think that this is a features request, but considering what they promised (a realistic flight simulator with realistic weather effects), this is a BUG.

1 Like

I would go further with turbulence, I’ve tried in a number of live weather situation and can’t get any noticeable turbulence effect.

3 Likes

Very interesting discussion and some very good points made in this thread.

I agree that turbulence and other weather effects should not be reduced to make the sim easier to fly.

I have seen two different links for votes here in this thread (and voted), but both of these threads do not explain clearly enough what kind of change would be warranted.

Maybe the OP of this thread, MarinaraTrain42, or someone else who has time to stay with the issue can make a polite, but clear worded VOTE thread with description of the problem as well as the envisioned solution?

Personally I have had very positive experience with some of my problems with the sim actually getting solved due to strong votes on those issues. So my guess is it would be the same with this issue if enough votes are collected.

2 Likes

Splitting the vote does not seem a good idea to me. As they count all these things separately (vertical airflow is now #7 and #10 and some lower rank). Please vote the existing wishlist topics when the subject is the same, or closely related.

The most recent with a LOT of votes is Homieffm’s topic,

… and the big one is

2 Likes

Good point, but I think the existing VOTE threads are not clear enough on the issue. (No offense intended towards the OPs of those threads)

No wind gusts regardless of how I set gust sliders. No data displayed in the “Wind Graph”

If I was Asobo I would see this as fixed when the gusts are shown in the wind graph.

Almost nonexistent turbulence within storm clouds?

This thread is not about turbulence in general, but about turbulence specifically in clouds.

As far as I understand, what we would want is not a better wind graph display, nor is it only fixing the amount of turbulence in clouds.

Instead what is experienced is a generally too weak effect of turbulence and drafts on the airplane - in the air as well as on the ground. The whish would be to have those simulated as realistically as possible without decreasing the effects of turbulence or drafts to make the sim easier to fly.

Maybe I missed a VOTE thread that clearly states this - if yes please point me to it - or it does not exist yet. If it does not exist yet, might make sense if it was created.

Well, this one you mentioned:

Thermals, Up&Downdrafts - Realism update needed!

seems to be pretty close on the issue.

1 Like

That tone is (was) because I advocate the subject very often… and very persistent. I want to fly sailplanes and I want to have turbulence and I want a control for it. I want it all. And that’s why I will always fight any sidelinks. This Wishlist thing is a ranking. In preparation of the updates, Asobo/MS make a top 24 of wishes, see the blogs of @Jummivana,

At first, I criticized Homie’s topic as well, but because there is so much interesting to read there, it could become the future topic. But I really hate this selection process, for this reason… Don’t see it as a personal attack, I just want to discourage posting too many different links to different wishes. That won’t help. In fact… better find them all… and vote for all… but there the forum vote limit comes in. You have only a limited count of votes.

Good info that everyone only has a limited amount of votes. Did not know this.

So if we were to recommend one thread to vote on this issue it would be Thermals, Up&Downdrafts - Realism update needed! I guess… - So here goes another one of my votes :wink:

2 Likes

Thanks for linking and voting for this topic! :slight_smile:
The up&down draft limitation is the reason you almost got no turbulences and no dangerous weather situations you would encounter in real life, so that’s the right wishlist thread to vote for.

Votes are ‘‘limited’’ , but everybody has 10.000, so no real reason to hold back :wink:

Yes, and they do that by making something gorgeous, entertaining and educational for us. That’s great business and there’s nothing wrong with that.

We really need to stop referring to the turbulence encountered in the sim as “Severe”. The level of turbulence encountered in the sim is a long way from severe. Let’s implement the same criteria real pilots use to report turbulence in a PIREP. Keep in mind that it is important to indicate the aircraft as well as the conditions as light turbulence in an airliner feels very different in a 152.

Incorrect categorization of intensity is how we ended up with reduced turbulence effects in the first place. Non pilots need to be made aware that real turbulence, even light or moderate is a lot more pronounced than they think.

The turbulence depicted in the video is “Occasional Moderate” at best.

6 Likes

I shared this with @BarrelYew322834. It helped him understand turbulence. I should probably share with the rest of you…

What we have in the simulator is a bit of a Frankenstein. Jetstream windshear effect and windshear rotor effects are poorly depicted and often too quick. Picture a river swollen with spring melt and you can imagine what that transition layer looks like. Now imagine going down that river in a submarine.

Pilots will avoid that boundary layer. It is ok to fly well above, below or in the jetstream but you do not want to subject your passengers to the boundary.

Moderate turbulence is a VERY unnerving experience for passengers and if encountered in a light aircraft at lower altitudes due to mechanical turbulence or storm fronts can leave inexperienced pilots shaken.

Severe turbulence is not something any general aviation casual pilot would ever want to encounter. Note the description… “Occasional loss of control.” I have encountered turbulence in a King Air that revealed years worth of dirt and debris, lost nuts and bolts and numerous pens that were thought lost. The bruising from my shoulder straps and lap belt made me look like a car crash victim.

6 Likes

As @willisxdc suggested, this is all we have at SU4 MSFS Update. He guided me a lot on the Live Weather Test. Route was EGGW - BKIF at FL 340 TOW 72000 Live Weather. @Evol3443 @MarinaraTrain42

I have noted in dev update 10 June 2021, that the Live Weather and Accurate Wind Reading is in the Top 2 Bug List. Hope this will be rectified in SU6 + SU7 (That’s is somewhere on September and Nov-Dec Update)