Marketplace: "Nutrition Label" for functionality and compatibility

Official Microsoft Flight Simulator Wishlist
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Please consider a “Nutrition Label” for Marketplace content, to inform customers of functionality and compatibility in a simple format.

FUNCTIONALITY

For example, I recently purchased an expensive 3rd party plane on the Marketplace for Xbox. Only after purchase did I learn:

  • The plane does not use the sim’s navdata and requires a subscription to update the navdata (and currently there is still no way to get this update on Xbox, although a solution may be in the works). Still the requirement of a navdata subscription was not apparent.
  • The plane’s FMC does not communicate flight plans to the sim’s ATC. So if you want native ATC (which is getting improvements in upcoming SU14 and SU15), you must enter the flight plan in the World Map before flight, and then enter it again in the plane’s FMC… of course you still need to hope the navdata are the same AIRAC cycle as the sim.
  • The plane does not communicate with the sim’s Weight & Balance panel for fuel and load balancing.

Those are not necessarily bad characteristics - developers have their own reasons for doing things their way. Still, customers need a clearer understanding of the functionality, compatibility and any dependencies to be able to make an INFORMED purchase.

COMPATIBILITY

It should be mandatory for developers to state what version of the sim their product is compatible with. “System Requirements” is standard information for any software. Microsoft would have to allow developers to log in to their accounts to update their products and update the notes and compatibility info.

That raises another concept, the process for posting updates for existing products on the marketplace (and updating the info about the products) should be streamlined and separate from the intake review for new products.

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I total Agree with this…

For my Point I saw post on FB of Mil Aircraft with bombs and Missiles on them. The aircraft came up for sale on marketplace so I brought it But had no Weapons, found out after that to get weapons needs to come from a 3rd party store for PC, As MS don’t wont weapons in the game and that’s fine, Its Their game/sim. However people need to know that when Buying in market place it wont have them, so we can chose how to send our money, I would have gone for a GA aircraft instead.

Thanks

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This is not an issue or limitation on any aircraft end. Presently any code via any means that adjusts the weight and balance will not be reflected in the sim weight and balance panel, which is a limitation of the panel itself.

This is an issue that is being looked into by the sim teams.

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I meant the other direction - loading the sim W&B panel before clicking “Fly”, and having that info sent to the plane’s FMC. For example, the default 787, 747 and Longitude can now be loaded and balanced very well via the sim’s W&B panel, but, the PMDG 737 does not see the sim’s W&B panel, or the flight plan, etc.

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Especially for Xbox!

I’ve several aircraft ready for Simbrief/Navigraph but nobody is clear on whether or not it will happen? If some functions are not being supplied on Xbox version sthen this needs to be clearly displayed.

The new 737 EFB won’t be much use to me bar looking good with a nicer performance page! Again Xbox won’t have Simbrief on a €70 aircraf, plus €6 for the official livery…chiching!!

Another thing is PC users pay €30 for Xyz and Xbox pay €30 for Xyz, minus Simbrief/Navigraph, minus free liveries etc. I’ve no problem supporting developers but if it’s a case that they throw up whatever they want and leave out functions, then I’ll be staying clear and only staying with developers who are transparent and support the product.

I would be purchasing a lot more but with vauge descriptions, hit n’miss quality and missing functions, I’m very picking about what I spent my € on.

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I would vote against it. I see neither the benefit nor a way to make it work reliably.

  1. Microsoft currently doesn’t even seem to be able (or willing) to spend enough money on manpower to even keep the Marketplace up-to-date, so the chance of them diverting any more workload towards an issue like this is remote.

  2. If you’d start a label like that, the regulatory institution would have to be Microsoft, and since CTDs and other problems can result from basically anything like overclocking, graphics drivers, double modellib.bgl CTD to simple stupidity, Microsoft would be swamped with complaints about incompatible products from day one.

  3. The Marketplace is a sales platform. And such kinds of labels normally are not issued by sales platforms, but by environmental agencies or by customer support groups etc. No labels like that exist anywhere in large platforms like amazon, ebay etc.
    What they should be introducing instead is a sensible refund policy like everywhere else. If a product isn’t up to snuff - you can return it within 30 days. Since - contrary to simmarket, JustFlight, Orbx etc. - all Marketplace products are copy-protected anyway, there’s no reason (apart from having to refund money) NOT to do it. It would probably also help improve the Marketplace’s image - which in turn should bring more revenue.
    What they won’t do is weed out sub-par developers, since they make them a lot of money.

  4. Testing for such a label would be overwhelmingly difficult for the developers, since they would have to own thousands of products to test theirs with. That’s simply not feasible - neither financially nor considering the time needed. But otherwise there would simply be no point.

  5. Developers are independent, and from my experience there’s been a lot of grief with shoddy quality in MSFS (not naming names).
    This is something we face everywhere we shop as well though. Whether it’s a candy bar in a supermarket or a new car at the local dealer. There’s nothing preventing us from getting suckered but our own intelligence and a little luck.
    But in the end we all know what we’d do, if we’re disappointed by a certain brand: we don’t buy there any more and we might check reviews or recommendations in advance next time BEFORE buying. Customer HAVE to take at least SOME responsibility for what they are doing with their money. Just expecting everything to always be great and complaining when is isn’t, is lazy and naive at best.

  6. Over the past 3 years I always had literally HUNDREDS of payware aircraft and airports as well as mods installed in MSFS at the same time, and only very very rarely had issues. And I never had an issue with two payware products. In fact I am constantly surprised - considering how complex MSFS already is - that I’m having almost no problems at all.
    Maybe I’m just lucky, but since there are also only rare examples of such problems discussed here in the forum (especially compared to the compaints about shoddy developers), I currently consider compatibility a non-issue - meaning it occurs from time to time but the overall impact is negligible.
    And if it occurs it probably would even with a label. In the end the dev is the one to have it solved.

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All I’m asking for is basic information:
What version of the Sim is the addon tested on?
Does the addon use the sim’s native:

  • Navigation Data
  • Weight and Balance settings
  • Flight Plan from World Map
  • ATC

This is especially relevant for Xbox, because the only source to buy things is the Marketplace - but there is no assurance of compatibily or functionality. This basic information provided by the developer allows customers to make informed decisions.

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that’s because the PMDG 737 is a ground up custom plane from a third party developer. It might be nice for some to have the in-game weights and balance panel but if i’m spending $70 on a plane it better have it’s own weights and balance solution.

If that’s something you’d like to see changed on that level, you’d have to ask PMDG to integrate the default weights and balance panel. Otherwise you’d see on the PMDG products on the marketplace some thing that says it doesn’t use default this or that.

Just because you’re on Xbox doesn’t stop you from doing research before purchasing an item on the marketplace; If you’re shopping for groceries, is it the stores responsibility to tell you whether x, y, z product is healthy and tasty or is it the product manufacturers job to comply with nutritional labeling and quality control?

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No - I don’t mind that the PMDG is custom built and uses external data sources. I mind that the distinction it’s not clear when I buy it.

I like the PMDG - I don’t want to change it. Developers have their own reasons and decide what data source to use. All I’m asking is to make it clear whether an addon can use the sim’s native data sources or not, and what version of the sim the addon is tested with. Simple

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Seconded. The Marketplace is understaffed as it is, unable to process the product pipeline in a timely fashion. Requiring any kind of ‘labeling’ just makes this worse and is also a slippery slope toward requiring more and more data.

The solution is to check the developer’s web site for functional properties of any given product and/or contact their support for additional pre-purchase information.

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or youtube videos/reviews. You might only have PC-equivalent reviews but it’s honestly better than nothing. Of course the developers are going to make the marketplace page make the product look good but word of mouth, youtube reviews and good ol fashioned internet sleuthing will yield more honest opinions

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Or, simply ask/require developers to include in the description on the Marketplace:

  • what version of the sim the addon is compatible with
  • does it use the sim’s navdata, w&b, flight plan, and ATC.
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I also think, that everyone can mitigate this limitation by not buying things based on screenshots or descriptions in the marketplace.

If you see something of interest, google it and check the reviews on the web. There you will get all information you need to judge if a product is well suited for your personal setup.

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Which is exactly why I’ve always advocated separate versions of the sim (and marketplace) for PC’s and consoles. That will never happen either.

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It won’t happen because managing two codebases for one sim doesn’t make sense from a resource or logistical perspective. It also doesn’t help developers because then they have to develop products for what are essentially two different games.

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Having two versions makes perfect sense from a customer perspective. Software companies write versions for Mac and Windows all the time.

PC’s and consoles are two distinct markets for this software, each with significant market shares.

It makes sense in some ways, not in others. I’m no business analyst, and can appreciate that from a business standpoint Microsobo probably had the cost/benefit analysis done long ago.

I somehow don’t think they understood all the ramications of sharing code and support resources between the two platforms. And at this point, it’s too late.

I am a little concerned at what I’ve heard about FS2024 being optimized more for Xbox. It makes sense in a way, considering the popularity of the sim, and the fact that Microsoft makes money selling Xbox hardware, and not PC hardware. I think that if they do that (make it more ‘game like’) they run the risk of alienating PC users (especially those who are investing in peripheral hardware.) And that would have a negative impact on many aspects of the flight sim ecosystem.

I’ll always tried hard to refrain from speculating about FS2024, and I’ll continue to hope more than I doubt.

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Microsoft produces Windows and owns the Xbox console, so I think they know fairly well what it would take to either share codebases for PC and Xbox or separate them.

The idea that Xbox users are mere “gamers” has continually been debunked in these forums, as there are many PC users who are more casual and many serious users of the sim who are on console. In fact, the optimizations for 2024 would enable more intensive use of the platform via more complex aircraft and 3rd party addons. Also, optimizations help lower-end PC users, too, as only a small number of folks have top of the line PC hardware even within that platform.

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You’re distorting my words, or have a case of confirmation bias.

Are CTD’s and bug reports the same for PC and console users?
I don’t believe they fully anticipated how a shared code base would result in divergent issues.

I didn’t not say that Xbox users are ‘gamers’ and PC users are not, or vice versa.

That is debatable. What optimizations? CPU code? GPU utilization? Texture resolution?

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It’s reasonable to argue that Xbox has definitely seen challenges with CTDs and black screens that may have surpassed what they expected originally. Console and PC may have different bugs and performance issues, which is true of any other game that spans platforms.

I responded to this exact point you made: “I am a little concerned at what I’ve heard about FS2024 being optimized more for Xbox. It makes sense in a way, considering the popularity of the sim, and the fact that Microsoft makes money selling Xbox hardware, and not PC hardware. I think that if they do that (make it more ‘game like’) they run the risk of alienating PC users.…”

But we can move on if that’s not your point.

We haven’t gotten technical details from the MSFS team, but memory optimization is clearly something they are prioritizing, and is a common constraint on both platforms.

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This isn’t really a thread about xbox vs pc.

I’m just asking that developers should provide a standard set of info about addons they submit to the marketplace, to indicate what version of the sim the addon is tested with (and to keep that info up to date), and to indicate if the addon communicates with the native MSFS services of navdata, W&B, flight plan, ATC, etc. It’s not that hard, and it allows customers to make informed decisions.

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