I tried several times for my PMDG 737 , but always get red-frames in the manager.
‘Loading custom camera view’ always fails. Is there somewhere a a video showing CLEARLY how to do the pop out?
Thanks
One thing to be aware of is that it’s relatively common for pop-outs to not work when the aircraft power is not on. Supposedly this is just the G1000, but who knows. It depends on exactly how the aircraft was coded. POPM has a setting at the profile level to turn on the power before pop-out and then turn it off afterwards.
This might help for some people.
@MrWoof9575 I had issues right back at the start with the ALT+0 view, so I changed mine to ALT+9 and have never had major problems with it. I do usually manually save the view before I first identify the source panel location for a new aircraft.
Just had to come back and say thanks to those who helped me with my touch screen issue. Got a replacement in the mail today and worked immediately and works perfect in MSFS. I’ll be doing some much needed TBM flying this weekend!!! @FlyerOneZero @WinningYard5086 @FlyingGunny and anyone else I missed, thank you again!!
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Just to add to this.
The power on/off assumes default battery master and avionics events are supported by the aircraft and not all are. The solutions in this case are
1 - manually power the aircraft yourself before running POPM.
2 - Use your external control app of choice to link the default events with whatever custom stuff is being used with the aircraft. Why the aircraft devs don’t do this anyhow is a mystery, but it’s certainly possible.
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Yes, good point. For example, the FSReborn FS500 doesn’t respond to the power-on events POPM uses.
I think it’s basically because 9/10 devs fly the sim with a mouse and keyboard and a controller or two, and they only think about the (admittedly majority) audience that flies this way also. If you can click on it with a mouse in the cockpit and it works, they consider their job done.
This bias is visible everywhere in MSFS, including in how Asobo designed and built the sim. The sad thing is that FSX had exactly the same situation and yet somehow ACES managed to consider other use cases and enable them, and Lockheed Martin ran with that for P3D (admittedly it was in their financial interest to do so, but the base ESP product was already designed right for it). Laminar Research has added features for sim-builders because they sell an FAA-certified flight training device version of X-Plane. MSFS is unique in the current flight sim world in being targeted only as a game.
This wouldn’t matter so much if MSFS wasn’t increasingly the only game in town. It’s killed the P3D add-on market stone dead, and X-Plane isn’t doing much better. Imagine if MS had decided not to support SimConnect in MSFS (this was, I believe, a possibility at the start). We’d be locked out, probably for good.
I can feel the old frustrations beginning to surface, and this is a POPM thread, so I’ll stop.
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Glad you got it to work. That’s the good thing about Amazon. I had to return two 24" touch monitors before I got one to work. It seems touch technology is still not clean after all these years.
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Hi all,
I’m hard at work on a much needed new feature in “adding” a new and better way to define pop out panels for an aircraft profile going forward.
Here is a video showing the new method
I’ve received a lot of request for help regarding an issue in defining panels to pop out when using the current custom camera view system in POPM. It seems to be less and less reliable overtime with the following two major issues:
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Ctrl-Alt-0 or Alt-0 does not work reliably or can be configured accurately on various user’s machine setup. And sometimes, it just plain twitchy for no reason (I’m guessing it is keystroke timing issue). I’ve received a lot of private request for help in this issue over past couple of months and spending a lot of time supporting users.
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A much request feature for aircraft that needs wide angle view to select all required panels such PMDG 737, Fenix / FBW A320 with EFB, a single custom camera view just does not work well at all, or does not work at all!
The new way is to use predefined smartcam targets camera view (pilot + copilot + all available instrumentation views) for each aircraft that are built into MSFS for each aircraft. These are the pilot and copilot camera view plus up to 10 or more instrumentation view for each aircraft. See screenshots below. I believe at least one of the predefined view for an aircraft should work to pick out the panel you need. The new way of selecting panel is to unlink the camera angle for an entire aircraft profile by allowing each panel to have its own camera view to pop it out. And I’m able to use MSFS SDK to change the smart targets view without using keystroke emulation.
The new way solves the problem by:
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Allowing more accurate panel selection since the target panel on screen can be much bigger, especially using instrumentation camera view.
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Solves the problem for aircraft that requires wide angle view.
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Much more reliable, no longer need to deal with camera zoom level, camera toggle + reset for Ctrrl-Alt-0 and Alt-0 to work, which are very buggy in MSFS since day one + all kinds of key press timing issue. Using SDK (although limited) is much more reliable way to set camera.
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There are still some limitation since I can’t read the name for each instrumentation view yet, so I just use Instrumentation 1, Instrumentation 2, etc.
I’ve tested the new method on few aircraft (PMDG 737, Fenix A320, FBW A320, TBM 930, few other GA) and the provided predefined camera view seemed to contain all the panels that can be popped out.
And… POPM will still allow you to use legacy way to configure and pop out panel so all your existing aircraft profiles will still work. And any new profile will default to use the new camera system.
Stanley
5 Likes
Can somebody please tell me what’s going wrong.
I tried several times but always get a FAILED loading custom camera view.
What is the exact trick?
Thanks
Hi all,
Version 4.1 beta is ready 
You can download it at my GitHub Repository
This pre-releases include the following:
- Added new method to select panel source for an aircraft profile using fixed camera view instead of relying saved custom camera view (Ctrl-Alt-0). Previous method of using saved custom camera view is still available to use if desire.
Video showing how to create a new aircraft profile using the new panel selection method: POPM - New method to select source panel on Vimeo
Video showing how to update existing aircraft profile to use the new panel selection method: POPM - Update existing aircraft profile to use new panel selection method on Vimeo
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Added new virtual number pad to be used for touch enabled screen. This number pad will first focus the game window before sending num pad keystroke to the game.
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Added a new button to easily close all Pop Out Panel Manager’s managed pop outs.
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Fixed few reported bugs in the application.
Note, to try out the new panel selection method, you can either make a copy of the aircraft profile using your existing one or just unselect use legacy camera system. You can then redefine panel source colored circles using the fixed camera system. All your finely tuned panel configurations (size, location, touch config, etc) will not be affected. You can use mixed and matched panel selection methods for your aircraft if you believe one method works better than the other. You POPM data profile is compatible with previous version 4.0.3. Only newly created profile using new panel selection method will not work in current version of the application.
As always, if you prefer, please backup POPM data file before trying out the beta. You can open POPM data location folder by clicking on the question mark icon on the main app screen and choose Help => Support.
Lastly, please report any issues you may come across and I will do my best to resolve them and update the application.
Happy Flying!
Stanley
2 Likes
Well done Stanley. I watched the video and the new solution is more intuitive, as we are familiar with the essential Ctrl+ keys to pick overhead, mcdu and efb…then back to PFD.
Is there a keystroke to reset the view, the same as reset in the camera menu? Can’t find it anywhere.
I can just about popout everything from a wide view, but sometimes the efb fails. The new method will be reliable.
There is no keystroke to reset cockpit view since I am using SimConnect SDK command to rest view. I can add a button and expose this function so you can press the button and the cockpit will reset itself similar to running SimConnect command.
I installed 4.1 beta, once I realised we could pick “instrument 1”, “instrument 3” etc. views the new process was obvious and it’s more reliable.
It also pops the windows faster.
It’s not idiot proof though, I switched to an outside camera and then ran POPM. All failed.
I hoped that “instrument 1” would magically switch to an inside view.
Is there a way for the efb window to float? I have PFD, Nav, Eicas, Ecam fixed on a 15.6in monitor, which is great and use them with my miniFCU.
If the efb floated I’d park it 20mm from bottom, then drag it up/down with the mouse.
One idea I just had is a hot key to pop the efb over the other instruments, use it, then hot key again to hide the efb.
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thank you so much for testing POPM beta and for your suggestions.
Issue #1. I’ve updated code to switch to cockpit view automatically if camara is in external view, drone view, outside view, etc. (a little more idiot proof) when defining pop out panels.
As for floating window, please let me know if I understand correctly about your idea and I’ll prototype the option to float any pop out window. I can see it as being very useful for users with limited monitor/display real estate. Here is the workflow:
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Firstly, pop outs will be defined as usual in POPM
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Add new option to assign floating keystroke to a panel. Ctrl + 1, Ctrl + 2 seems to be available by default within MSFS. But since this keystroke has to be global across Windows OS (needs to execute without POPM in focus), there could be keystroke conflict with other apps running. I’m not sure what can be done and I will need recommendation by you guys to see what works, what doesn’t.
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Also do some research and see how much work to bind to a joystick button instead of keystroke. But this is lower priority since there are probably program out there that maps joystick button to key press.
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Add option to allow pop out to be hidden (minimize?) or float initially.
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When the floating keystroke / joystick button is pressed, the panel will toggle between floating and hidden state.
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I believe I run into issue when coding POPM before when I tried to minimize/restore pop out window. But it was a year ago. MSFS may have fixed the problem. I’ll try again and see if I can figure out a clean way to hide or show pop out without minimize pop out window.
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Also investigate and make toggling of floating panel using touch instead of just keystroke. (Since for my own use case, my entire cockpit setup is touch based, with onscreen touch keyboard and the new POPM number pad feature).
Stanley
1 Like
I think resetting the view ready for flight is an important part of the POPM automation so could this last step just be done the old keystroke way because of no sim connect for that. I see no reason to remove it unless it’s technically not possible to sequence the chosen keystrokes after the new Simconnect stuff has finished.
Stanley,
The efb is a special case. Not essential for flying, but important for plane management.
For the FBW32 it’s part of the preflight setup and the only way to get fuel balanced left, right for example.
During Popm operation I noticed I could drag the efb window around and suddenly realised I could drag it up to use it, then drag it down to see the 4 main instruments. But after the pop out process the origin is fixed.
As a retired developer I was thinking of the ancient function
ShowWindow( hwnd, state );
There are spare buttons on the TM Airbus joystick, taken over by the throttle quadrant + flaps extension.
To my mind the far left joystick button could show/hide the efb.
Paul
1 Like
I’ve released v4.1 beta 2.
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Make POPM more user friendly when defining panels. POPM will try to switch to cockpit view before continuing if the flight session is current in other camera view (external, drone, etc). Since manipulating camera system using SimConnect API commands are pretty complex, bugs may still exist for the new camera system.
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Added requested feature from [TaurineCorn668] for floating window. You can now minimize and restore pop out as needed by assigning keystroke (Ctrl-0 through Ctrl-9). Also, panel config (width, height, top, left) will not change when pop out is minimized. Plus, I’ve added logic to only detect keyboard inputs as required when keyboard feature is being used (floating window, keyboard shortcut to pop out panel, etc) in order to minimize CPU impact. As for predefined fixed keystrokes, Ctrl-0 to 9 seems to not being used by default in MSFS. If not, please let me know and suggest what set of keystrokes is doable for this feature.
- Still working on the new button to reset camera view, the SimConnect API command has some kinks in it and I need to figure out the issue.
Stanley
2 Likes
Hi,
The new v4.1 beta 2 works well. I can keep an eye on the ground services and then Start Pop Out immediately moves to the cockpit.
The floating EFB is great, and overlays the instruments on my 15.6in touch screen. It’s quick to toggle visibility with a key press. That’s a big win for efficient use of screen space.
The one gotcha is that Ctrl+0 to 9 are preassigned in MSFS to the instrument views! I have used Ctrl+0 which is already mapped to the EFB in the FBW.
I did find I had to double-click the keystroke combo to choose a shortcut. Something with keyboard focus maybe?
I’m not worried by the key duplication at the moment, because we have proof of concept in the beta.
We’ll have to trawl through the list of keyboard shortcuts to find some unused real estate. Personally I think the days of F1 to F8 for throttle and flaps are long gone; I’d use those if I could.
Right Shift and Right Ctrl are largely free in MSFS.
However the ATC toolbar incorrectly responds to Right Ctrl 1 to 4 and Right Shift 1 to 4, which I think is a bug.
I’m wondering if a key-map file is a solution for the jungle of key combinations, but for novices that could be too complex to get right.
Thanks for the quick work.
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Got couple hours free from office work this morning so I’m back to the drawing board. I agreed and believed using preset keys or key-map file is too complex and limits the customization for keystroke assignments for each user’s MSFS keyboard configurations. But allowing free-formed key assignment by detecting allowing user to define key presses (similar in how MSFS configure keyboard control commands), this gives flexibility to the users. Also, multiple panels can be assigned to the same key bindings and minimize/restore at the same time.
See the prototype image below. I was able to detect keyboard input and assign panel with the key combination (left-ctrl + left-shift + rightAlt + 1) and then set the panel configuration data accordingly. The 2nd image has the non-traditional key assignment (A + S + D + F). This is the easy part.
Next is the hard part, I’ve to figure out how to match key combination since user can press multiple keys at a time and I’ve to determine when keyboard input starts and ends (key up/key down as a set). Then matching the combination to the panel configuration to manipulate the pop out.
And this is still prototype, I may run into showstopper and the whole idea may not work at all. Also, low level keyboard detection could cause performance issue and memory leak. I have to be very careful when implementing this feature.
On a side note, I should have done this for the legacy custom camera angle (Ctrl-Alt-0) or pop out command (Right-Alt + left-click) and then it will work for all users’ keyboard layout. Oh well, that’s legacy and we have a new way to do custom camera!
Stanley
1 Like
That some cool code to detect key sequences. Definitely a good design.
(Let’s over engineer with a command line processor, Unix style😀:-)
In my MFC C++ days we would typically && the modifier key states with an input character.
I haven’t used C# much, but I used Visual Studio C++ from 1994 to 2017. Maybe I could review/test/debug some of the code?
As you implied there could be unintended consequences, like another toolbar app not being smart with input characters.
Paul
You’re on the right track but unfortunately, modified key states won’t work since it only knows the modifier as control, shift, or alt. But I won’t know if the key press is the left control key or right control key. POPM previously ran into problems with EU keyboard where some modifier key is missing or different.
And by allowing free-formed definition of keystrokes, this will allow users to workaround any conflicts with other external apps when POPM and MSFS are running.