Multiplayer Question regarding comms

I tried that before with a friend of mine a few months ago. We flew the A320 in a convoy through Japan while also testing to see if there’s a wake turbulence if we’re flying just 5 metres apart from tail to nose (it doesn’t have wake turbulence). The shared ATC doesn’t work. Each of us have our own ATC, and whatever communication my friend has to the ATC, I don’t hear it. And vice versa. I know because while we’re flying together, we’re also livestreaming to one another. So I can see what they’re seeing, and they can see mine. But each of our own ATC comms are not crossing each other.

UNICOM is generally air-to-ground like an FBO or airport attendant. For airstrips without a tower, there is a published CTAF to be used by pilots to announce their position to other pilots. But in MSFS it is broadcast only, no pilot-to-pilot communication. If two aircraft announce that they are both on the base leg, the pilots should ask each other, “Do you see me?” Essentially each pilot becomes their own flying control tower.

In MSFS, pilots should be able to talk to each other at non-tower airports using the CTAF frequency.

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Semantics…
126.7 would generally be used as CTAF except in circumstances where, as we have locally, there is an established traffic frequency that is manned by the FSS during business hours and used as CTAF in the off hours.
I get it…
It is acceptable in most cases to contact a known aircraft on 126.7 to indicate a switch to 122.75 for p to p communication.
You stated…

I was just pointing out that you can contact them. Established “universal” channel IS 122.75 for fixed wing and 123.025 for rotary.

Obviously I am aware the option is NOT modeled in MSFS.

Actually a small pilot-to-pilot chat inside MSFS would be already a great thing (with the possibility to enable/disable receiving messages).

The FBW A32NX mod already features an Air2Air Free Text messaging system in the AOC menu where you can send messages to someone else using the mod by typing in the callsign (which you at least know if you’re flying on a network). But it only works if both are using the mod and have the Free Text communication enabled (default is disabled).
I’m not sure if it’s in the stable build, I was running the experimental.

Anyway, it’s not the solution of course, just a hint that there is something similar due to lack of built-in features :slight_smile:

This would be a good thing they should put into the sim. Granted IRL there isnt something, however this is NOT RL and would be nice if they set up frequencies in areas, especially high traffic areas, where pilots could communicate with each other if wanted, or if when you get online, you are assigned a frequency and this frequency is displayed with your name while flying so if someone wanted to contact you they could. Other games have used comms in the game, specifically the Battlefield series. Just a thought. This way you could actually meet new people and whatnot.

There is something meant for this IRL and if I’m not mistaken is called UNICOM and has a fixed frequency for this already. There is no need to reinvent the wheel in my opinion like I’ve said above.

I’m stubborn about this one because I want to believe Jorg stance which is FS2020 is a simulator for simmers first and foremost, not a Xbox game title for console.

Therefore, just make it for simmers (tuned freq and talk, behind the scene this connects to an XBL lobby or whatever communication pipe XBL provides for this) with enough “amenities” for gamers (make the traditional XBL “talking with my friends when I’m playing on my console” a feature on the PC version).

We have a few thousand members on this forum and there are more than a few users that constantly flame anyone that has a differing opinion. Imagine 100s of thousands casual gamers. We already have pilots that think its fun to barnstorm other pilots. We have users on this forum that have made it clear that unless you are starting cold and dark and using proper procedures to taxi out and take off then you are a clown and there should be a special zone just for you.

There are so many differing opinions on how this sim should be used and who should be allowed to fly in a multiplayer environment that ANY public comms system would almost instantly become a flame network. We have numerous ways to meet other simpilots on various social media. Discord, this forum, dedicated member only clubs, XBox even has a “find other pilots” option. There are plenty of game communications options that you can use once connected with like minded pilots. None of those options are integrated and as such will not impact any else’s enjoyment.

Just having the ability to use profanity (I couldn’t care less) that can be heard through the ATC comms system has already been exploited by those that still think farts are funny. That’s not going to fly when little Timmy is playing XBox, showing Gramma how well he can land and one of those clever call signs is boomed out across the family sound system.

An anonymous community of millions of users cannot be trusted to be civil, family friendly or even quiet, when required. If we want to communicate, we can. Randomly shouting across the street to a stranger just because they are walking the same direction as you could get you shot in some neighborhoods. Maybe we should be required to meet at a designated place for that purpose and provide mutual consent, before someone is allowed to holler across my family room.

I guess it would be fine if we could all be adults…
yea…

image

Yes I do believe it. However, I have a feeling that people above Jorg’s head have other priorities and steer the ship.

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Not being a real pilot myself, i was not aware there wasnt a general frequency channel you could use to communicate.

Thinking about it…that is a valid point willis

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This keeps coming up…
There are designated frequencies in real life for aircraft to aircraft communications.
Check your regs folks.

World wide 123.45 is also used during transoceanic flights. And trust me when I say, that one can be pretty chatty.

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On paper I agree. But…

If they don’t use the XBL communication system in FS2020 here is what will happen:

  • PC simmers are used to Vatsim, it is intrinsic to the simmers going the extra length of replicating IRL coms in the simultator, but if there is no other means to com, gamers will most likely use the Vatsim coms for casual coms.

  • PC “casual” simmers wanting to com but not as formally as Vatsim will have to recourse to different options incompatible with one another. This makes it difficult to encounter new people and ride along.

  • Xbox and PC players won’t be able to talk to each other because FS2020 is cross play but not the coms.

  • Xbox users are used to XBL coms, it is intrinsic to the ecosystem and they most likely won’t seek any other system just for FS2020.

Now you may not know it, but XBL coms also ship with a report and ban system and everything is recorded for review. The others systems might not be. I expect profanity in FS2020 be more reported than in CoD for example.

All the above leads me to believe the best system is using the existing XBL com infrastructure:

  • it is meant for massive coms
  • it is moderated and monitored
  • it offers lobbies for talking just with friends
  • FS2020 could use the lobby system (or any other custom made concept atop the coms infrastructure) to let anyone tuned to the same freq at a certain distance being able to com with others tune to the same freq (I simplistically describe it as 1 lobby automatically created per tunable freq).

How about…

  • facebook groups
  • twitter
  • THIS FORUM
  • un countable discord channels
  • dedicated aviation sim enthusiast web groups
    (just joined a GA group myself. A place for VFR GA pilots to get together)
  • virtual airline groups

I could make quite a list but you get the idea.

I have no issue with a lobby type com system. In fact I think it would be great. I was more stomping on the “Hey there is another plane in my vicinity, I should talk to him”. Or the idea of public broadcast of ATC comms.
Both BAD ideas.

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All segregating players in their own bubble unfortunately. If we’re sharing the sky, I’d rather also sharing the coms, and let common sense and moderation purge the problematic behaviors.

And in any case, one doesn’t preclude the other! You can still use all you want, including facetime audio or even simpler: your phone.

I strongly believe FS2020 should also include a standard communication system and there is no better option for a cross play game (XBox + PC) than XBL coms services which are specifically meant and designed for this, and deeply rooted in the XBL ecosystem. I’m in fact very surprised they didn’t include it from the get go like any other online MP XBox game.

A trick a few of my flight sim ham radio buddies do is talk to each other over FM simplex on the 2-meter band. It gives us real-time radio communications without messing with software. It also brings in some interesting remarks from other hams who are monitoring the frequency (146.520 if nobody is chatting on it).

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Or designate a single frequency (maybe 121.5) that pilots in general can use to setup a group flight, and maybe limit it to “groups” where one party has invited one or more others into a group. Not having the ability for pilots IN GAME to speak with each other, at least with some sort of text function really limits the usability of multiplayer for impromptu use.

I put out an open invitation earlier with an invite to my Discord server, and was in the discord chat the whole time I was flying. In fact, I’m going to do that as a general rule moving forward. Unfortunately, I got no takers this time, but there’s always next time… In fact, I’m going to be in one of my discord chatrooms every time I am in the game moving forward, hopefully eventually I’ll get some takers lol!!

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123.4 when ATC frequency doesn’t need monitoring.

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I am seeing that from a different angle. Not segregation but usually bringing together like minded individuals. Randomly selecting from a couple million users or forming up with individuals that you met in a common room.

On your other point. I guess I am just to old and jaded. I no longer believe that “common sense” is common or that in general the anonymous ‘social’ media system does anything other than provide the most toxic among us a voice and they will hijack any positive discourse they can find, purely for entertainment.

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I might be old too myself from time to time :smile:

I do understand the same-minded pilots using same-minded tools as well, but you can’t shield out people regardless. People are people, we all are to varying degrees (I have no doubt some find my posts annoying sometimes :innocent: )

What I suggest is FS2020 using a sanctioned and ubiquitous technology integral to the XBL ecosystem they are already using for MP authentication, DRM, purchase validation, telemetry, remote activate of FS2020 features (these are bits saved in your XBL profile not accessible from any user interface…).

Otherwise I’m nearly certain their vision of cross-play won’t work for MP because both sides won’t be able to talk and chat (and chatting in VR is hard so voice coms are paramount), and the other side might highjack the only prevalent coms network which is Vatsim for casual talking. Also, if the FS2020 Xbox version ships with XBL coms as it should because it is an XBox game, PC users won’t have therefore the same level of experience as Xbox players if there is no XBL coms for the PC version, making the game unbalanced among players.

And in all cases, adding one solution (XBL) doesn’t preclude using any other existing and alternative external means of communication like the ones you’re listing. The more the merrier.

The fact that I can start a party on my PC and chat with anybody in the party, while I fly, even if they are on XBox playing Sea of Thieves, doesn’t count already?

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