Nemeth Design - Schweizer S300

Once again we are in the same situation as when the S300 was launched: Some people find it unflyable, others like it a lot. I started in the “like it a lot” camp, but since the latest update I don’t like to fly it anymore. I could adapt to the strange roll movement, but I don’t want to because it messes up all my other helicopter flying.
Happy for everybody who can (still) enjoy the S300, because otherwise it is a wonderful little helicopter.

The main problem is still the wrong and excessive inertia values on the addon configuration files, not the controls input. This is what needs to be fixed. It has too much inertia for such a light mass and that’s why it’s so unresponsive to cyclic corrections during hover and at low speeds.

Cheers

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Well, just speaking for myself, after a fair bit of adjusting the joystick settings for cyclic and rudder, this has become my favorite heli. Very nimble and very predictable. One of the biggest issues I find between different heli’s is cyclic trim. Trimming your controls for a neutral and stable hover is crusial. I fly with an X52 stick and throttle, and CH rudder pedals. Spring on the stick has been fully tie-wrapped so it is totaly free. With this I do not need to apply any trim for the current 300. For forward flight just push the stick forward as needed relative to forward speed and cruise. When decelerating for approach to hover just coordinate pitch and collective through transition and I don’t have to fiddle with pitch trim. Sorry for rambling on… As a side note I have also taken the springs out of my pedals as well.

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Great for you!
How many flying this actually get the chopper to nose down by forward on stick?
And when you say forward, do you really mean forward?! Or is it the direction that the chopper goes forward in, that you have relearned so to speak?

With a stick you can just rotate it infront of you and it doesnt matter that forward is actually x amount of degrees to the left, no springs makes it even easier.
Plug in a controller and see if your view of flying this changes.

People reading this and buys this as first chopper is in for a big surprise…

Idk what you use to fly it but it sure is not a controller.

Lets see tomorrow if anything changes with the new update (SU14) for all choppers and maybe we can all fly this and enjoy it.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I am reporting on just my own experience with this heli. I do use a Warthog joystick, with the heavy spring removed , which gives me fairly precise control along with an X52 throttle quadrant for the collective and CH Pro Pedals. I would call those just regular controllers. No assists or curves applied, so it’s just a straight forward setup, nothing special. The FM for this bird now seems a little mild since the last update. I’m not sure what’s causing the erratic behavior for others, but not me. I wish everyone well.

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Yes I agree the FM seems a bit more tame compared to before. And applying damping curves to cyclic control leads to severe control issues. Straight linear cyclic controls respond quickly so you don’t need to over control. When I also thought so many of the Heli’s in MSFS had major FM design issues, I found that the problem was really my control setup. The most important being a neutral fore and aft trim when hovering. If the ship will hover without having to hold a certain forward or back pressure, things become far less eratic when correcting for wind, etc. The 300 on my system comes off the ground with my stick centered. Also I found I needed better setup up of rudder control. Here I will use a bit of curve, or % of reaction, etc. so the pedals are not twitchy, but are smooth with ample right left control. Don’t chase things, it creates other issues elsewhere. It’s almost like pointing a finger at where you want to go and hold it there. Not back and forth… Oooops… rambling again.

Just compare with real S300. It´s still very steady and it quickly reacts to cyclc inputs as it´s very light. In game it reacts like a boeing 747 because it basically reuses most of the inertia figures (I mean the order of magnitude of those values) from their Bell 407 but for a much lighter mass. Notice how initial hover requires a back-right cyclic movement in the real S300 and compare that with hover in game too, where cyclic barely needs to be adjusted, any small input during hover simply skyrockets the pitch and translation speed and it takes ages for a correction to be effective. Again that´s because the inertia is excessive not because the input scalars (controls sensitivity) are wrong. That´s why using smoother curves in game´s controls doesn´t fix the problem, but just reduces the risk of too agressive undesired movements, while still getting the same original reaction to inertia.

I still like the 3D model but they clearly need to tune flight dynamics it and get rid of those Cessna style engine sounds. That´s terrible. Then it would be a lovely bird to fly and enjoy.

Cheers

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There was an update in the marketplace to V1.0.4 yesterday. I couldn’t find a change log anywhere but it doesn’t seem to fly any differently…and the passenger is still reaching over for the controls.

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Updated and tried it again, had a horrible flight in this a day ago, but since its very apparant this chopper has a problem with the direction of the cyclic, I put the xbox controller in my lap now and turned it 30-40 degrees to the right, and hold the stick with my thumb and finger, and what do you know! Problem solved! Well, it at least became controllable for the first time ever!
Up (nose down) is actually north-east
Right is north-west
Left is south-west
Down is south-east

Since flying with the controller this way is not something that I am used too its not very easy, but still almost enjoyable, at least long banking turns, its hard doing anything like precision flying like landing or hovering, and I refuse to learn to fly with the controller like this, but it shows what the biggest problem with this chopper is!
The cyclic Is all twisted 30-40 degrees to the left!

Isnt the cyclic a bit twisted in some helis?! You fly with your right hand and grabbing the cyclic it will be with that angle, is this what has been coded in?
Maybe this is the reason people with big long flightsticks can fly this since they sit with the arms like that?!

Well nemeth, fix this and maybe people can actually fly this and maybe you get higher rating and even more sales?
I REALLY like the 3d model and cockpit, I really want to fly this

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I purchased it direct from Nemeth. Didn’t get any sort of notification of an update so thanks for he heads up.

The latest version on their site is v1.0.5 (there is no v1.0.4 release at all on their site) No idea if they are actually the same version just named differently.

No sign of any patch notes with the download or on their website either… Better go test it I suppose!

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Just picked this up in the MP sale (v1.0.5). and it’s a Jekyll and Hyde heli for sure.
My first 5 attempts to takeoff off and only with a tiny bit of collective it goes completely out of control and flips over.

I read through the thread from last year and read about the trim bug diagnosis. I seem to have encountered this and also the 45deg stick to the left for nose down bug too. Despite it supposedly having been fixed?

Noteworthy is that after restarting a session a few times and disengaging the trim fuse while starting on the runway, and the trim (ground) bug just disappeared and I can start on runway with or without trim fuse being off and it takes off fine. Not sure what was happening in those first few attempts. It wasn’t me or my setup (Hotas and nothing but heli axis/controls mapped).

I suspect there is a bugged state that some (including me) have encountered. Maybe relating to first install and the trim :man_shrugging:. But for me, now it’s gone.
So a Jekyll and Hyde heli it is. It is very nice when it’s behaving itself admittedly. Which it has been on subsequent flight restarts.

Also as @Niffstippels mentioned if you encounter the trim bug, flip the trip fuse AND then hit a trim reset too otherwise it won’t correct. I think this is important to note.

For me this heli is a :star: in the bugged state but a :star: :star: :star: :star: when it’s not. definitely worth the sale price. I just hope I don’t encounter the bug again.

Thank you all for your valuable insights as usual. I’d have been writing it off far too early otherwise.

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Observations after using the S300 for a few hours:

  • TRIM BUG was back for me after a sim restart (+ cold and dark start), again very easy to work around by taking off with trim breaker set to OFF and a TRIM reset button press (NOTE: you can turn trim on again during flight to enable trim) BUT this can lead to “interesting” nose-up situations as you simultaneously try to control the pitch with your HOTAS while fumbling about with the mouse to re-engage the trim breaker! Once re-engaged trim works great in flight.
  • As with most helis you will need to use trim to relieve pressure on stick grip.
  • It is hard to trim to perfect level flight, and tiny trim adjustments need to be continually made
  • The hours counter doesn’t currently work and stays stuck on 1/10
  • It handles very smoothly and feels great to fly, overall it’s a very nice flying experience.
  • As others have noted the sounds are a bit Cessna GA like rather than a heli but it is a small piston engined heli.
  • Smooth running and very easy on CPU & FPS
  • It’s more fun to fly than some of the better known helis
  • Over speeds seem to be tolerated/no price to pay
  • Need to use a mod to get GTN650
  • Can require quite a bit of fine cyclic control during landing especially in wind.
  • Heli seems to be under controlled compared to other helis (see XBox controller tweak in release notes below) so the default helicopter profile with X&Y cyclic -50% sensitivity works fine, but for Y cyclic axis I have set the Extremity dead zone to 25% to give me some finer lateral cyclic control (better for take offs and landings esp in wind)
  • Not sure I’d attempt to fly it without a HOTAS though
  • I can see why the ratings are polarised, but the issue that is driving them is easily worked around. It is certainly not deserving of a one star, probably more like a 4* with a few caveats
  • IMO an underrated hidden gem
  • I can see me flying this a lot more it has a fun factor
  • Currently a bargain in the marketplace sale

RELEASE NOTES
For those without release notes, they are actually embedded in the manifest.json comments fields. Listed below for your convenience.

VERSION 1.0.5 RELEASED FEBRUARY 28, 2024

  • model and texture fixes, corrections
  • minor flight stability tweak

VERSION 1.0.4 RELEASED NOVEMBER 8, 2023

  • New simplified flight dynamics to accommodate using of Xbox controllers

VERSION 1.0.3 RELEASED AUGUST 15, 2023

  • Cockpit light tool tips correction

VERSION 1.0.2 RELEASED JULY 18, 2023

  • Reduced cyclic and rudder responiveness
  • Additional flight dynamics tweaks

VERSION 1.0.1 RELEASED JUNE 22, 2023

  • Trim error fix.

A few screen grabs from a flight around the Isles of Jura and Colonsay, Scotland this morning.



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Hi,
I still fly version 1.0.2 and after correcting the Axes-twist in my DIY cyclic (only for the Schweizer) it flies perfect.
It is very responsive on the cyclic but that’s the real one also, (i had an introduction flight in one) so i wouldn’t have it different.
I should mention that my cyclic is a full-size cyclic so i can imagine that for a normal joystick and certainly for the Xbox this sensitivity is almost not to handle.
But for me i will certainly not upgrade to version 1.0.4 where the flightmodel is tamed for Xbox.
It is the model that i fly most after the Hype H145 and H160 heli’s.

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That ”tameing” did basically nothing

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I think taming helis for joystick use is best done in sensitivity settings. I set a profile up just for the s300 with an extremity deadzone on the L-R cyclic. It tames it down considerably. That on top of the 50% reduction in sensitivity already suggested for helicopters. Its actually fine once you change that and also use the trim switch tweak. Its really nice to fly.

I forget, but can you change sensitivity of XBox controller paddle? I do think some of these helis are more suited to a hotas & pedal use though.
The s300 is really fun to fly though, way more so than some of the other devs better known ones at a higher price. I’d highly recommend it to anyone.

Oh and if you want the s300 completely tamed then there is a mod for that available on fs .to. Although personally I prefer the untamed version!

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Yes also I prefer the untamed version.
The S300 should be twitchy, it’s a very small chopper with minimal mass, so will react on every tiny move of the cyclic.
I also use pedals and a full size collective. I even increased the sensitivity of my cyclic. To bring it into a steep bank i only have to move the cyclic 10 a 12 mm, (keep in mind, a full size Cyclic, so for a joystick that would be way less), adjusted it to be that senssitive after my introductory flight which i took to check if the real one also had this excessive Axis-twist, which it hadn’t.
But i see this twist also a little bit in the Bell407 which is also designed by Nemeth.
My guess? they didn’t adjust the flightmodel for the way less mass of the S300, but as said, that’s only a guess.

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I didn’t know this, this is interesting. So Asobo really just did the Cabri then?

Yes. Asobo developed the Cabri to create the helicopter flight model. Nemeth developed the B407.

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I just did a short flight with version 1.0.5 (Marketplace), and did not experience the weird 45 degree cyclic issue I had since 1.0.2 or so. Definitely an improvement for me :slight_smile:

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