New pc for Msfs 2024 and more

I’m no expert on this so don’t put too much weight on my opinion or my experience. Based on my personal experience with my systems, my use cases and MSFS 2020 I’d say a cleverly chosen CPU would be more beneficial than a 4070 super vs a 4070 w/o “super”. But I have no experience with frame generation (I have a 3070Ti using an ultra wide monitor) and no first hand experience with that CPU. But as has also been discussed on this forum (e. g. here with 7800 vs 7900), MSFS 2020 loves the L3 cache on those CPUs.

But, again, that is for MSFS 2020, no idea about MSFS 2024…

I’ll just wait until next spring and see what the consensus is about CPUs and MSFS 2024 before I decide to upgrade. Personally, I’ll try to get something that generates less heat and therefore less cooling noise than my current system :innocent:

:grinning: Alright thankyou very much, I think that should be it :grimacing: hopefully. i’m probably going to go with the 4070 and the 7900x3d or maybe save and get the 70super and the 7900x3d depends on how things turn out. Thanks a bunch for your help

1 Like

For context, I prefer to run native resolution and frame rates. Running upscalers and frame generation is going to impact image quality to varying degrees. The sim is also relatively slow moving, so having super high frame rates is not beneficial like it would be in a racing or first person shooter game. When it comes to frame generation specifically, my opinion is if you feel like you must rely on it, then your GPU likely isn’t strong enough to use it without annoying artifacts anyway. If your GPU is strong enough, then you probably won’t need frame gen in the first place.

With that in mind, running in native modes, AMD is the better value. They usually beat similar priced Nvidia cards in rasterized performance. I have used their FSR upscaler for VR, but that is a unique use case where the headset resolution is low enough that it didn’t matter about potential detail loss but made a huge difference in both frame rates and motion tracking smoothness. When using my 4k monitor, I run native resolution and no frame generation, and that’s with the numbers I mentioned above. My monitor is 60Hz limited, so there’s many times I’m leaving performance on the table, especially during my current project that has me flying over the plains of the northern U.S. and nothing around for miles.

AMD does have their own version of frame generation if you really feel the need.

That reminds me, AMD unlocked the clock speeds on it recently. It had been artificially locked in a way that severely hindered overclocking on it. I’ve heard that has since been fixed and I think it has become a respectable card in that arena. Most people are reporting a 10-15% performance boost over stock settings (including over factory OC stock settings). It’s basically close to a 7900XT for a lot less money. I know overclocking isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s a rather impressive card for those that are into it. I almost got it myself, but couldn’t quite stretch the budget at the time.

1 Like

I think the original gpu choice in message 1, is better than any similar priced AMD gpu. AMD currently makes about 12% of gpu’s, Nvidia about 88%. There are good reasons for this. Get a series 4000 gpu, nothing else will do in my opinion. This is for MSFS.

The original GPU, 4070 Super is not quite the best choice around that price. The 4070 Super Ti has more RAM. RAM is king in MSFS (16GB vs 12GB). It is not much more expensive. Super Ti, not the Super is the one to get. It also performs better, very noticeable in VR.

I am on Avsim, more than here. It’s hard to find people with AMD gpus there. Most seem to have a 4090 or 4080 (but they are expensive).

Where AMD does have a bigger chunk of the market and is a very worthy choice is in cpus, not gpus. AMD X3D’s are the best gaming cpus dollar for dollar by a mile. And Intel cpus have quality control problems too.

1 Like

Here is MSFS video comparing 3080, 4070SuperTi, and 4090.

Notes:
His title says 4070 ti but it is a 4070SuperTi that he is testing.
His 4090 has 24GB Ram (ram is king is msfs)
My monitor setup is exactly like his, a double wide 1440p (5120x1440p). Please note that a single wide 4K monitor displays even more pixels and is an even tougher test (3840 x 2160).
You can’t do native FG without DLSS 3 and that means a 4000 series Nvidia card, not an AMD card. You can do non native FG with AMD.

Great for MFS even in VR and MFS 2024 is double threading so beter performance. I have a 3080 and it’s smooth as butter in VR

The cheapest 4070 Super is currently $580. The cheapest Ti Super is $780. It sounds like @Wiggyboy9885 is on a tight budget, and an extra $200 is a lot more expensive at this price range. I do agree with you that VRAM is king. IF there is room in the budget, the $530 7900GRE clocks in with 16 GB as well and performs on par with the 4070 Ti Super in the sim. Or the $690 7900XT with 20 GB of VRAM that performs much better than the 4070 Ti Super when not CPU limited, as shown in this video comparing against both stock and overclocked settings. The sim comparison is at 8:53.

And to go back to my initial suggestions, he also has a video comparing the 7800XT and 7900GRE to the 4070 Super, and it looks like my guestimations were confirmed. The GRE performs better at a slightly cheaper price, and the 7800XT is only a little bit worse for quite a bit less than the 4070 Super. The sim comparison starts at 11:03.

While I can appreciate & respect your opinion, keep in mind that the sim is optimized for the AMD platform due to the Xbox X/S consoles being based upon AMD technology which has a positive impact. Both Nvidia and AMD gpu’s along with Intel are all solid choices for the sim.

I think that what is important here is price/performance and budget considerations as @Mooncatt3953 has been emphasizing above.

1 Like

Native frame generation doubles fps natively and that is Nvidia 4000 series. AMD makes lots of sense for most games and those gamer Youtubers love them. But I’ve never seen one of the 7 or 8 or so MSFS youtubers I follow say that they have an AMD gpu.

Mine: AMD 5800X3D cpu ($275). 4070 Nvidia ($550). AM4 motherboard. 32 GB low spec ram. I only have a 600 watt PSU, so I didn’t get a 4070 Super Ti. And a 7800X3D won’t fit my AM4 motherboard.

I’ve explained why I don’t think frame generation is worth it for this sim, and in general. You seem to be treating it as if it’s a requirement. Perhaps you can explain why you lean so heavily into it?

That is because streamers are using their cards to earn income and are likely using 4090’s. Even the most hardcore AMD fans agree that is the absolute best performing consumer GPU on the market right now. The key difference is it’s your average gamer is going to be on a tighter budget and not shopping for the absolute best. It’s much easier to justify spending $1700 or more on the best GPU possible because they will actually get a return on that investment.

If you start trying to do heavy game loads while also trying to stream, you want to be able to play on the highest settings to best show off the game. You don’t want to be dealing with issues like fiddling with settings to achieve proper frame rates all the time. You also are going to prioritize stability, meaning you’re not going to want to buy a cheaper card and try overclocking it and have a greater risk of a crash mid stream. You are simply going to buy the higher end card that is meant to deliver the performance out of the box.

Comparing the topic at hand to what streamers use is a false equivalency and should not be the basis of any decision on which components to buy, unless the specific use cases are also comparable.

1 Like

Heh, a couple hundred more by Christmas, I’d mow a few lawns or something.

Me: Native frame generation doubles fps natively and that is Nvidia 4000 series.

You: I’ve explained why I don’t think frame generation is worth it for this sim, and in general. You seem to be treating it as if it’s a requirement. Perhaps you can explain why you lean so heavily into it?

Me again:
FG is not a requirement. But double fps is highly desirable.
My appreciation of FG is because of this: When I turn it off with a mouse click, stutters arrive and a jerky experience happens. This goes away when I click it on. My experience: I had removed my 3070 and put in my 4070 and changed the settings which caused the FG option not to be greyed out. Instant happiness. A whole new experience in MSFS.


Me: But I’ve never seen one of the 7 or 8 or so MSFS youtubers I follow say that they have an AMD gpu.

You again: That is because streamers are using their cards to earn income and are likely using 4090’s. Even the most hardcore AMD fans agree that is the absolute best performing consumer GPU on the market right now. The key difference is it’s your average gamer is going to be on a tighter budget and not shopping for the absolute best.

Me again: "Here’s an example. He bought a whole new computer with a 4060, not a 4060 ti. It cost under 800 pounds. This was “Let’s not dilly dally” Huddison. He had been using an older lesser computer for his videos for years and gained 20,000 subscribers.

That video of his is not a low budget computer themed video. The rig he purchased will become his main rig, and will be used to continue making all of his YT videos. It’s what he can afford.

1 Like

I think 4k is relatively rare and 1440 is the norm. Most ‘super settings’ YouTube videos are not 4k settings. They’ll dabble and sometimes try 4k. I’m 4080s and it crushes 2020 in 1440 without FG, just can’t use 1440 on a 55". Most ultra 4k with traffic is 30s 40s and 60s in the air and FG gets it more to where you don’t see that range of frame rate. But most FPS damage and stutters is clearly relatively simple CPU intensive objects. The amount it drags the system down with a CPU at 24% can obviously be optimized with a better engine.

1 Like

Actually, it was. His stated goal was to buy a new system for about the same price as his old one, and that price for a new prebuilt system for MSFS is low budget. If that is your budget and you are looking only at new systems/components, then I would agree the 4060 is likely the best choice. Not because it’s better than a similarly priced AMD card, but because AMD has no low budget GPUs in this production cycle. You would need to either increase your budget or be willing to buy something on the used market. Again, not an applicable comparison across the board or in this situation.

Regarding frame generation, I have no idea why you suddenly get stutters without it. All I can say is that I’m getting great performance in almost every situation at native 4K without it, and doing so on a card that cost less than the original 4070 Super in question. It probably boils down to how our systems are tuned, but I’ll leave it up to others trying to decide for themselves how much weight to put into our respective arguments.

1 Like

Hi sorry for the late response, I’ve been on holiday, I must admit i didn’t know much about the loss of visual quality with frame generation and you’re definitely right about not relying on the frame generation and instead prioritising native performance. Looking into Amd i see that it does seem to be a lot better value compared to nvidea. Are you suggesting the 7900gre for my build? If so which model? One more thing the new sim shows off ray tracing, is the 7900gre capable of that or is that only nvidea?

Hi I’m finding this hard to keep up because msfs forums is a bit new to me and having to click show hidden replies and then it jumping up to a different part is really confusing. I’ve got about 20 posts since I last looked! Could you explain what is going on? and what your advice would be. Sorry about this.

Apologies in advance. I can be clear, or concise, but rarely both.

The 7900GRE is at the top of my list for your specific situation, but I was going back through your initial post and will throw in a caveat.

I didn’t notice at first, but I see you did have VR in your possible uses. AMD can do VR, but Nvidia is traditionally considered better for that. If you are going to be on something basic like a Quest 3 that I’m using, the GRE should work fine and it’ll look really nice. If you plan to dive into the deep end with one of the high end VR options with higher resolutions and advanced features, then you should research that. VR isn’t my strong suit. It may turn out that you should get an Nvidia card in that scenario. It’ll also likely require drastically increasing your budget as well. There’s also some other niche uses where Nvidia does hold an edge, especially in AI work.

When it comes to ray tracing, that is another area where I’m not concerned about its use. In my experience, the graphical improvements weren’t worth the performance hit. There’s even been a few cases where I thought the non-traced version of a scene looked better than the traced version. It’s kind of like my opinion of Ambient Occlusion in the sim. Yeah there’s a visible difference, but it’s not enough for me to care or to justify paying a premium to run it well.

If you do think you’ll really want it, AMD GPUs can run it, but is another case where Nvidia traditionally performs better. Now that AMD has a couple generations of RT under its belt, it probably performs well enough if you have a strong enough card. I.e. that 4060 card mentioned earlier can technically run RT, but even it likely wouldn’t do so well enough to be for anything more than pretty screenshots.

We also don’t know what type of RT the next version will have, or how demanding it’ll be. There are multiple flavors of RT. Some are not very demanding, and some can be rather intensive. Since we don’t know what 2024 will bring or how resource intensive it’ll be, I personally would not buy something based on rumors and promises. I would buy based on what is available today. That’s just my general belief system when it comes to purchasing anything.

Long story short, my recommendation is based around the current sim and what little else you’ve said here about your use case. It shouldn’t be taken as gospel without also considering other factors that only you may know, and other subjective preferences you may have.

Hopefully I’m understanding your question…

It seems like @DartoFielder is suggesting to buy something he is more knowledgeable on, almost as a case of paying more for convenience (factual errors aside). I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but it’s the impression I’m getting. There is something to be said about that mentality, and there are a lot of people that want to just hand a clerk money and get performance without all the thought and nuance it can take to find the best value for you specifically. I use to work retail and got that a lot from customers. It’s not wrong to want that type of convenience as long as you are willing to pay a potential premium for it.

My points admittedly get into the weeds. It requires more effort to research all the options, prices, and other variables, and then to be able to explain it to others that may not be as tech savvy. Sometimes the end result may be agreeing with the initial suggestion, other times you can tease out a better suited solution.

If you’re reading through all this, getting overwhelmed and decide, “Screw it, I’m getting the 4070 Super and be done with it,” I’m not going to judge you. It will still be a capable card and it’s not like you’re about to spend top dollar on something that will only deliver slideshow performance.

Hi thanks a lot for being so thoughtful, I’m only 13 so struggled to get my head round some of it. You’ve made this very clear and concise so thanks a lot for that. about the vr, I only have a quest 2 and it would just be a nice option. Thanks for taking time to research all this and making it clear and digestible. After hearing all this and knowing now that the rx 7900gre has a lot more vram and that msfs is vram hungry i’m probably going to go with that. Again thanks a lot for your help. Much appreciated, Jack.

2 Likes

Thanks.

So for the Quest 2, the GRE should have no trouble running it. It’s going to be less demanding than the Quest 3, while on a better GPU than I’m using. I recently posted my settings in another thread, which would give you a great baseline on yours when it’s built, and could then easily go up in settings from there

1 Like

Thankyou very much, I will refer to this closer to the time, one thing, what model of rx7900gre would you reccomend?
Thanks, Jack