Newbie ILS Landing Issues

This depends on the Navigation Equipment in the Aircraft. The G1000/G3000 automatically switches to the NAV1 / ILS when you reach your Initial Approach Fix. On less advanced Aircraft you have to switch from GPS to ILS manually.

Sorry, but no. If it was 100ft, then yes. But 10ft off runway? That is not an S turn but a small correction that takes you to the center line safely. What kind of aircraft do you fly in real life?

Any deviation outside of the runway boundaries is a no-go. That’s a 90ft deviation from the CL.
Especially in low viz conditions that’s completely unacceptable.
E.g. A320 & 767.

Which aircraft do you fly?

Technically the localizer can‘t even bring you that far next to the runway if it‘s mounted and set up correctly (ground side). It‘s a fence at the END of the runway sending its overlapping impulses in a very narrow angle along the runway. It makes no sense to miss the runway technically if the fence is placed in one line with the runway. Glideslope is a bit different, it‘s a couple of emmitters on a pole next to the runway a couple of hundred feet behind the threshold.

@Kappy1582 in addition to what PZL said: The autopilot can follow the input of the GPS or of the „Nav“ devices, which means radio navigation. Usually the decision is to be made between „GPS“ or „FMS“, depending on the equipment of the airplane and „NAV1“ and „NAV2“, 1 and 2 simply as aircraft usually have two independant radio nav receivers with number 1 to be used for the Instrument Landing System (ILS).

@PZL104
So you believe that course knob is only there for show? !!! (Because I don’t like to yell, I simply copied and pasted your exclamation marks). Whilst MSFS doesn’t require course information because it’s given under airac (nav-data) in sim and in aircraft (except 3rd party). In real life, If the aircraft doesn’t have airac info to match, somebody is going to crash because the course didn’t match.
I can only surmise you have little to no experience in real aircraft under IMC conditions.

I came here to give advice to answer the OP - a newbie - without protraction as to confuse him. Seeing as you are doing a great job doing just that, I’m not going to revisit this thread from here on in. I muted responses. The ball is now in your court and I leave you in command. Good bye and good luck

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A totally uncalled for derogatory reply and you are completely missing the point.
Btw. it’s pretty embarrassing if a flight instructor doesn’t know how a localizer works .

A localizer is not the same as a VOR radial. The course knob has no effect on the CDI when flying a localizer. All it does is line up the course line so it’s vertical which makes interpreting it a heck of a lot easier.

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Yes please revisit your statements. A localizer is different from a VOR and therefore the course knob is irrelevant when flying a localizer (not so a VOR of course). I am not a flight instructor but I know that too with my humble PPL (former IFR rating).

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So going back to my initial question, I’ve taken all the advice here. I’ve switched to Nav1 when at the first waypoint on approach, I’ve turned on APPR when on the glideslope. And I’m still coming in slightly to the right of the runway. I get taking AP off and hand flying, I did a landing like that today, but that can’t be the ideal way can it? I’ve watched ILS tutorial videos on YouTube and their planes are centered on the runway the entire way. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong.

A panel screenshot might help with troubleshooting.

At which airport and on which runway did you experience this problem?


Sorry for the delay, been out of town. Here is a screenshot of a flight I just did to runway 12 at MKJP. You can see I’m lined up way to the right of the runway. My process…

Take off
Set altitude to 4,000 feet, hit auto pilot
Hit NAV so it follows GPS
When I hit the first waypoint on approach I hit the Nav button to change from FMS (I think that’s what it’s called, can’t recall now) to VOR1.
The plane turns to get on the localizer. When the glideslope is nearing the middle I hit VNAV.
Then I hit APP four approach.
Lower flaps and landing gear.

That’s it. Does anyone know why I keep getting lined up to the right of the runway and not centered?

Thanks.

You did everything correct and the LOC is perfectly centered :slight_smile:

But you’ve managed to choose one of the few ILS approaches which has an offset localizer IRL.
Unfortunately 99% of these are wrong in MSFS.

The antenna isn’t located behind the runway and the localizer course IRL differs by 3° from the runway heading.
IRL you approach the runway at this angle and you would cross the runway centerline at or a few hundred feet before the threshold.

In MSFS this angle difference isn’t implemented in most cases which means that you are incorrectly flying parallel to the runway, which makes a landing in bad weather next to impossible

Last but not least, your seating position is way too low. You can’t see the runway during the flare.
You can e.g. alter the height permanently by increasing the camera height in the GUI.

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The biggest advice I would offer to a newbie is to learn to do ILSs in a 172. In the real world, only military pilots start out with anything much bigger, and they go through months of intensive training before they ever see the inside of a cockpit. And if you haven’t already, get some real controllers, there isn’t an aircraft on the planet that is flown with anything even close to an Xbox controller.

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Since the OP did everything correct, why should he fly a boring 172?
Isn’t that the advantage of a sim?

Military pilots also start their career in small aircraft.

With a large negative sensitivity curve a Xbox controller isn’t that bad.
In fact using a second stick for rudder control is more realistic than using a twist grip joystick.
Even RC models are being controlled with a transmitter which much more resembles a xbox controller than a joystick :wink:

Since the weather conditions look excellent, my workaround would be to disengage the AP when you have the runway in site and do a manual approach and landing.

Thanks, I respect that answer but it doesn’t answer my main question which is, why does this happen? I know this isn’t right. Flying ILS approaches should line me up with the center of the runway. Not off to the right. I’ve watched plenty of YouTube videos of people doing this with FS and they’re all lined up perfectly.

Again, it does happen because the ILS position/direction is wrong on this particular runway in MSFS.

I hope the upload of the approach plate for the ILS at MKJP works. MSFS might have issues with offset Locelizers. As you can see in the Approach Plate the ILS is offset by a few degrees on this approach. The ILS will take you to the end of the runway, but offset by a few degrees.

Out of interest, what does this “co-pilot” mean? I have seen a couple of posts which contain faulty information, be careful not to supply people with wrong information.

  1. Not only visibility, also cloud base / ceiling needs to be high enough in order to become and to stay visual with the runway. Nice to have 10 km visibility below an overcast cloud layer, you still won’t be able to see the runway. Not that it matters, you could also fly manually whilst IMC.
  2. What do you mean with LVP conditions? You might still be able to hand-fly as the airport Low Visibility Procedures (LVP) simply means that the airport is preparing for low visibility and / or low ceiling, it does not necessarily mean that the actual weather is < CAT I. In short LVP has little to do with actual low visibility take-offs and landings.
  3. In order to continue an approach it is not required to see the whole runway and beyond, the list of visual references required in order to continue a CAT I approach below DA/H is a long one. If you are only disconnecting in CAVOK, seeing the whole runway, how are you planning to perform a CAT I approach and landing with 550 m RVR?
  4. Seeing the full runway length and beyond does not have much to do with being CAVOK. CAVOK means visibility of more than 10 km, no clouds below 5000 ft or highest MSA whichever is lower, no CBs etc.
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This might be a difference between GA and airline philosophy, ending up 10 ft next to the runway (not 10 ft off centerline, 10 ft from runway edge!) would not be considered a successful or stable approach. This would be close to full scale deflection on the expanded localizer scale. Its also unnecessary in real life, I have flown old 19-seat turboprops, only CAT I approved, no autopilot or flight director, and I have never ended up next to the runway upon breaking out of the clouds.

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