Nose rises after touch down

I noticed that the nose rises right after the main gear touches down, instead of settling down. This is with just about every heavy jet, 747, 767, 777…

Im not new to simming…and Im not flaring to late…It does this even if I dont flare at all and just come in shallow.

This never happened with FS9, FSX, and P3D.

Title corrected to reflect topic content.

that’s realistic behavior. although the planes themselves are not the best in terms of systems…I haven’t flown the 777 irl, but in the 74 and 76, the nose tends to rise on touchdown if you’re not “on it,” that’s why it’s important to fly the plane all the way till you stop. You’ll need some forward pressure to keep the nose from rising, but not too much as to slam the nose gear down.

That makes sense…But why did P3D (or any other sim) never need me to put forward pressure after landing, while MSFS does? Modeling flight dynamics accurately was of high priority to LM.

They both can’t be right!

Flightmodel of P3D is pretty „arcady“ imho. It never really needed „skill“ to handle the planes. The term „fly like on rails“ is often used to describe P3Ds flightmodel.

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I can’t comment on these planes in the sim, but in reality it is a huge no-no to be pushing the nose down after main gear contact. You should never have to do that.

The reality is that the nose gear will come down like a tonne of bricks anyway, and therefore it has to be flown on to the runway, particularly in jets. It goes without saying that the structure of the nose gear is much weaker than the main gear, so it needs taking care of.

It is something you tend to see with new pilots (and we’ve all done it!) where when they start out once the main gear touches down they relax and think job done, forgetting about the nose gear. Before you know it your teeth are somewhere around eye level :joy:

Assuming the flight model is correct (and given the jets you’ve listed are more game-like rather than sim-like I wouldn’t be so sure about that), if you’re finding the nose rising after weight on the main wheel there could be a number of causes;

  • You haven’t armed the speedbrake / ground spoilers or they haven’t deployed
  • You have too much aft trim
  • You have touched down in too high a nose attitude
  • You are too fast
  • You have over flared
  • You still have thrust on

…or a combination of some or all of the above. I can’t say I’ve noticed this behaviour in the 2 jets I fly in the sim, the PMDG 737 & the Fenix A320. I also never saw it in the FBW A320 either.

P3D dynamics were wrong. I complained to PMDG about it, but they said these nuanced flight dynamics were impossible to implement in that sim.

Yes, the PMDG 737’s don’t do this.
But you are saying that its a huge no-no to be pushing the nose down after main gear contact, but others are saying that’s realistic behavior, and you’ll need some forward pressure to keep the nose from rising.

So again, you both can’t be right!

What we face here is simply the ground effect. It pulls the horizontal stabilizer down, hence the nose goes up. As said by others P3D didn’t really have any “flight dynamics”, a movement through space was displayed and with a lot of skill by 3rd party developers it looked quite good but we actually never moved wings through air. I can’t speak for XPlane but in the MS Flightsim line this sim is the first to really simulate “flight”.

I should have mentioned that some planes do this and some dont (All the Captainsims but none of the PMDGS) So it must be “in the plane”

Im getting some varied opinions, so I guess I will have to ask a real pilot…“Do you push the nose down or don’t you”

When landing, forward pressure should be applied until you’ve decelerated below 60 knots or so. This is due to ground effect. The plane is meant to fly and does everything possible to continue to do so and so you have residual air under the wings that will try to push up and keep the plane flying. You mentioned P3D so I assume you’ve been flying/simming awhile. You should know this, pilot or not. Even watching a few cockpit landing videos could easily give you this answer as well.

We’re not both right, I am :innocent: I’m being cheeky and mean that as tongue-in-cheek as is possible.

18yrs flying commercially & currently fly the 787. I promise you, pushing the nose down after main gear contact would almost certainly lead to the nose gear being badly damaged with a fair chance of it collapsing entirely. You’d be surprised how flimsy the nose gear is (relatively speaking) in comparison to the the mains.

The PMDG 737 behaves pretty much exactly as per the real aircraft.

Hope that clears it up.

Just to note, having read the post above this, that once the nose gear has been flown on to the runway nose down elevator is often applied to ensure good directional control, something that is vitally important in a strong crosswind or on a contaminated runway.

To be clear, in replying above I am talking about not applying nose down elevator to lower the nose wheel on to the runway immediately after the main gear has made contact. With the spoilers deploying and the autobrake / reversers kicking in all the momentum is bringing the nose down pretty rapidly. The spoilers are phenomenally powerful and dump lift almost instantaneously, so adding to that with forward elevator is an absolute no-no. On the contrary, you often almost need a second flare to actually fly the nose on to the runway. The golden rule is that you are still flying the aircraft until you’re at a safe taxi speed.

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I’ve flown a little general aviation when I was younger and holding back the stick was part of the landing and holding it. Later years when I was working line service flew with a transplant network in a CJ1+ and I specifically remember when they landed they pushed forward on the yoke while the thrust attenuators was kicked in. Well I asked the pilot basically why the heck he did that. He said to help keep the nose down while the thrust attenuator was engaged. So one thing I have noticed in this sim is GA landing the physics hold true while landing and when I fly the vision jet or CJ4 holding forward pressure on the yoke after all wheels have touched down seems right. Just a little bit of my real world experience observing.

                                       Happy Landings

P.S. When I flew in the CJ1+ it was also winter then. Keep in mind the pilot applied forward yoke after all wheels were on the deck during braking.