November 2nd, 2023 Development Update Blog Discussion

High cost of entry, tough to blame anyone who looks at $70USD price tag and says “no thanks” - but with that comes a very stable, tried-and-true product that is very well represented on Xbox and has done a lot of work to build my confidence that I can plan a night around flying and not end up disappointed. Just Flight’s BAe146 is right up there too.

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Disagree mate

I think its to do with WASM which is released on Mondays I believe

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It can be to do with man utd for all I care

What I said earlier has touched some nerves, which is good. Let’s take the F28 as a further example of what I’m talking about. I’m thankful that JustFlight wants to make sure the aircraft is stable on the console, which (to me) is the hallmark of a quality developer. Now, let’s say the F28 gets released on the console mid to late December (which would kinda make sense because people will be on vacation for the holidays and can enjoy it). While the testing of the F28 continues up until it’s approved for release on the console, JustFlight will likely update the aircraft on the PC (various fixes and whatnot). Nothing is saying that the aircraft that will be released for the console will be the same build version as the PC. Why? They will likely have to make some adjustments to the build for the F28 to be stable, especially on the Series S. So, we go right back into the cycle of waiting for an update on the console to be processed, which likely wouldn’t be released until late January at the earliest. For $70-ish does that make much sense?

I do agree that overall the sim has improved on the console since it was released. My thing is that for all the steps forward (high fidelity airlines being one of the major steps forward, which gives us more options than the standard aircraft that were released with the sim) we seem to take too many steps back. There is some work being done to make things even better (the “improved A320neo” being one of them) which I do appreciate. As another post stated earlier about the big picture, I do agree with that comment too.

I initially started MSFS on the Series S. Over time I discovered that the Series S doesn’t have the graphic power of the Series X. This became clear to me when flying at night and there would be no runway lights when I was on final approach. I decided to step up to the Series X a few months ago, and now the runway light problem has gone away. I have nearly 1000 hours of flying on the Xbox (although right now in the sim I only have credit for 486 hours, but that’s a whole other issue). I honestly want MSFS to be better than where it is right now, but maybe the complexity of it all will keep it from being much better, I don’t know. Instead of throwing in the towel and walking away, I’m going to stick it out with the understanding that I have no expectations anymore. I can’t get excited about Thursdays because week after week it’s been disappointing. I never know when I’ll get updates to the aircraft I already own, and who knows how current that build version will be. The only option I have right now is to vote with my wallet, even if I’m only one person doing it. I don’t want to get to the point of voting with my feet and leaving the sim for good.

I do understand that bringing something like Flight Sim to the console was a massive undertaking, and I do believe that the team is passionate (to an extent) about MSFS and the community in general. I want them to be successful in this endeavor. I love being a part of a virtual airline on FsHub because it gives me ideas of flights to do. I guess I’m trying to express my disappointment about the current state of the marketplace without getting “ugly” about it. Constructive criticism is generally better than the other kind I reckon.

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Information regarding the F28 from yesterday:

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Funny… About 8 weeks ago, they said they submitted it to the marketplace for xbox… Back tracking… All the time to suit big corps

Possibly, but you don’t really know that. Depending on what JF are exactly addressing, it could very well be the same Build with additional lower-res assets for X-S or specific conditionals in WASM code etc.

I feel for you but you need to confront the reality that MSFS on any XBOX is really only intended to draw in multitudes of casual Gamepass users who hop in a simple AC and enjoy the visuals for a bit before switching to another Gamepass game. Those folks cause significant MS resources be available for the product development, which benefits everybody.

Any non-casual user that really wants to enjoy all MSFS has to offer is better off to just bite the bullet and get a PC.

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This is not correct. There are many core simmers with high-end peripherals and complex add-on aircraft on the Xbox platform, and there are also plenty of casual Game Pass players on PC. One’s choice of platform, be it PC or Xbox, is not in any way an indication of one’s level of interest in Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Thanks,
MSFS Team

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I have bought the F28 duting it’s brief availabilty on Xbox, will i still be able to fly and use the aircraft until it is fully released on Xbox ?

For the price of two consoles, you could have been well on your way to a pc build

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This is all well-thought out and written. I guess for me, it always comes back to this thought: with all of the effort required by ALL parties involved (MS, Asobo, third party devs) to maintain parity across platforms with respect to incremental upgrades, build numbers, everything you’ve outlined in your post…what’s the incentive to keep innovating and solving for these things when it’s just loudly met with complaining and bellyaching on here and Discord and elsewhere?

Not your post specifically, by any means, you’ve got your thoughts on it and you’re not being obnoxious or anything, but so many people are, and us Xbox simmers I think have a right to be a little weary of this whole thing just going away (speaking moreso about third party add-on support; I know MS/Asobo have cemented their commitment to the platform). If I’m a dev, path of least resistance. Keep printing money on the PC platform and let’s just let the Xbox kids fly their glass 172s. Isn’t it awesome that it isn’t like that?

Even more than the weary feeling, we should have a fair amount of gratitude. Read UncleBSim’s post again and see for yourself all the hoops these parties need to jump through to deliver content to us. 2, 3 years ago, we were second-class citizens. That’s improving every day. Seedy acknowledged there’s Xbox players with loads of money into their hangars and peripherals and I’m happy (and lucky!) to be one of them. $500 console got me in the door doing discovery flights in 4k and to look back on that versus the type of flying I’m doing now makes me feel very grateful. I think the community could use a good dose of gratitude here and there for how things are, and the way they’re trending for the future.

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The sim on series X is impressive for what it is, but the only thing I regret about running it for 18 months was it took me that long before I switched to PC.

Now I’m on PC it is not perfect, but it’s a hugely better experience in so many ways, and most especially so for airliner flying. The opportunities and stability are incomparable. Some of the add-ons that make such a difference on PC will never be available on xbox due to the closed system. Airliner flying in particular is massively more advanced on PC.

On xbox it was a love-hate relationship with the sim, where it might be amazing or it would break and ruin my flight, occasionally I’d have to time out for a couple of weeks due to frustration. On PC I’m just excited to fire it up and fly every time I get a chance, and amazing on PC reaches higher levels than xbox ever could.

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Point taken that not every core simmer needs to abandon Xbox for a PC but please note that I didn’t say anything about casual players on PC nor did I state that the choice of platform indicates level of interest.

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How? Not being argumentative, I just go through little FOMO phases sometimes where I kick around the idea of buying a PC and I’m curious what elements of your airliner flying are enhanced over what’s available on Xbox. Every time I go down that train of thought I end up concluding that VATSIM and things like pop-out panels and aircraft-agnostic SimLink moving map plugins, while no doubt cool, are not worth the barrier of entry (building/buying a flight sim-centric PC).

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I mean, you said that “MSFS on any XBOX is really only intended to draw in multitudes of casual Gamepass users who hop in a simple AC and enjoy the visuals for a bit before switching to another Gamepass game.”

The point SeedyL is making about casual players on PC shows that this claim is false: the Xbox platform is not “intended to draw in” casual users as compared to non-casual users.

Over the past year, the gap between Xbox and PC for airliners and broader jet aircraft has narrowed quite a bit, too. We got the IniBuilds A310 last November and in 2023 MS and Working Title delivered heavily improved, high fidelity reworks of the CJ4, Longitude, 747, and 787. PMDG’s 737 series is now on Xbox and the new IniBuilds A320neo will round out a big year for Xbox users who like airliners (to not even mention other cross-platform releases like the ATR).

It would be great to get another regional airliner or two on Xbox, like the Aerosoft CRJ or a solid Embraer regional jet. Fingers crossed this may come with the Expert Series lineup or in MSFS 2024.

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If MSFS was the only “game” i play, i probably build a decent PC rig years ago. Only thing is, I’m a console player all my life. I just love the simplicity, plug and play style, comfortly on my couch in the living room playing games on my 77" OLED. But, I know this is possible with a PC these days as well…

Besides that, although my 1900hrs of MSFS on Xbox, I’m not really consider myself a die-hard simmer. I love and play lots of different other games as well. In that regard, I can’t justify buying a descent PC solely for the purpose of playing MSFS.

I can live with the shortcomings of MSFS on Xbox. I knew this when i started Simming. All I ask for is a stable Simulator, working “flawlessly” together with the 3rd party add-ons the MP is offering. In my almost 3 years experience, this is currently not possible on Xbox. Why, after all this time, can’t they fix the black screens issue??? The CTD’s after that??? It’s been almost 3 years…

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Very good point. Xbox is very specific, known hardware, unlike PCs with literally billions of possible hardware configurations. The vanilla sim should not CTD on such a known, defined platform as Xbox. Black screens due to lack of memory should not happen. The sim should at least be coded to identify any marginal RAM situation and exit gracefully with an appropriate message.

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I must add to this, I think the vanilla Sim is working good on Xbox. It’s those add-ons like airports where things get very messy. That’s what makes it so difficult. Who is here to blame?

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You are saying that the existence of casual PC players proves that Xbox is not “intended to draw in” casual users as compared to non-casual users. I may be dense but that makes no logical sense at all to me.

What does or does not happen on PC has no bearing on what the sim was intended to achieve on Xbox.

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