OK, What's wrong with spawning where you want and using the sim as you wish?

There’s no reason why game should not allow you to spawn wherever you want at sea, air or land other than a lazy implementation. For instance now you can spawn airborne but at a fixed altitude. Even worse… at helipads you can only spawn with engines running.

Cheers

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There are plenty of ways to not use the mouse. Personally I use Air Manager and never use the mouse once I click fly.

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There’s a mod that will click fly for you too :wink:

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Exactly my point.  You do what’s good for you - and I have no right to judge you, or the way you use the sim.

The “ultra realistic” pilots, especially the ones that fly airliners on virtual airlines, get massive respect and props from me as it takes more talent than I may ever have to do that.

One of my favorite pilots is @ZILLNIAZI17.  His “thing” is flying around really interesting, especially geologically interesting, features and landmarks like volcanoes and such.  He also references a nearby airport just in case someone else wants to try it.

How “realistically” does he fly?  I don’t know and I really don’t care - he may spawn directly over the mountain for all I know.  It’s the results that count and he’s having a lot of fun sightseeing!

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Yeah I have it and it works great. I actually meant the one before that whatever it’s called. :slight_smile:

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Same with me. Multiplayer is disabled. For every person that may want to learn there are dozens of trolls who get a jolly interfering with other players’ enjoyment. I went online once and it was a free for all with multiple people trying to crash or fly through my airplane. If someone is serious about learning then there are plenty of good resources.

To insinuate that the community is somehow responsible for logging in to multiplayer just in case one person is earnest about learning to fly a video game is preposterous. If people have the right to treat the game like a crash em derby then I have the same right to not participate in multiplayer. Trying to guilt someone for not participating in multiplayer is the same mentality as the trolls who get their jollies causing mayhem.

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Fly how you want. Spawn where you want. Enjoy the sim how you want. Gatekeepers gonna gatekeep.

The thing I do wish we had is support for persistent global groups - that is, multiplayer groups you could join that don’t require a group owner to be flying at that time - so that people who, say, want to fly with others but with rules about no spawning on the runway (as an example) or only C&D starts etc could do so if and when they want to. Multiplayer is really an all-or-nothing affair right now, unless you have a regular group of buddies you can fly with at a scheduled time when everyone can be online (and if you can get groups to work at all). Someone spawning on the runway while you’re on final is just a thing that’s going to happen sometimes in open-world MP. It’s the risk you take when you fly with MP on.

It would be great to be able to build communities. There’s VATSIM, of course, but something more sim-native would be great.

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Why should it be the person who is trying to be realistic have multiplayer turned off, rather than the person who’s not trying to be realistic? That doesn’t make any sense.

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I know you’re not. I meant the ongoing argument; I wasn’t referring to anything you said. I repeat, you have the right to spawn anywhere you wish.

I was simply saying that, if a simmer wants realism, which includes not having people spawning in front of/on top of/underneath/inside them, then why would they have multiplayer on in the first place?

As I see it, realism and multiplayer, though both perfectly valid ways of enjoying the sim, are mutually exclusive. You can’t have both; at least, not at the same time.

That’s what I meant when I said I didn’t understand the argument.

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I wasn’t even aware this was a thing. I fly fully online, I always start cold and dark, but if someone spawns on the runway right as I’m at the hold short or when I’m on the runway for that matter I don’t even bat an eye. They are allowed to as am I and that’s fine. If it bothered me, I would most likely turn multiplayer off.

I could maybe see an argument for an “Online - realism” option which made it so that you could not spawn on the runway (unless there were no other options, which is true for the vast majority of strips in MSFS sadly), but would that also disable slew? There are so many ways people can break your immersion that trying to dictate other players rather than just disabling online is maximum silliness to me. Whether someone spawned on a runway or not, it won’t stop them from buzzing you in their F-18 while you’re flying around in your Cessna :laughing:

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This deserves more likes than I’m available to give. Not that global multiplayer should ever go away, but given availability of choice, as you stated, I think people would quickly find groups that suit their niche.

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Thank you for the honour, sir.

And I have never spawned. I perform a proper take-off and landing for every mission executed.

Once again, thanks a million for the kind words. MSFS is very educational if one knows what one is doing.

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Because I believe it is an unavoidable fact that a great number of people flying with multiplayer on do NOT fly in a realistic, responsible way. And I do not believe there is any practical way to change that behaviour.

Practically speaking, it seems one is forced to choose between two imperfect options:

  • Multiplayer off (with the resultant impact on random traffic) or
  • multiplayer on (in which case you have a lot of traffic, but with a significant portion that is often behaving unrealistically).

I am not sure how it would be possible to improve this situation. While I consider this to be the current reality, I think all we can do is choose which one of these options we prefer. FWIW I fly with multiplayer off and I enjoy the sim tremendously. The same way I am sure that there are MANY people with multiplayer on and they equally enjoy what they do.

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Like the man said:  “You can’t cure [trolls].”

Now I will agree that as a “netiquette” thing, spawning on a runway during multi-player, especially somewhere where there’s a lot of traffic, is just downright rude.  If I remember rightly, IVAO has a “take a peek” feature so you know who is where, where you want to spawn - which is convenient.

Actually, you can.  However, like any cooperative venture it requires cooperation and planning.

Spawning on the runway when a 777 is on short final is not the best thing you can do, and a recently signed-on ATC at what was an unmanned tower 30 seconds ago shouting commands at me - a novice - on short final leaves something to be desired too.  (I ignored him.)

Cooperation and mutual respect is the key here.  If I don’t want to play by the group rules, (or I am working on bringing my skills up to that level before I jump in), I should stay outta the kitchen.  Likewise, when not on M.P., folks can’t criticize or demean me because of the way I fly.

You can have both as I said before.  You can run ultimate realism, (working an active airport with ATC and other gamers with you), and that’s OK.  Again, I believe “plane” 'ole politeness (“netiquette”), should prevent someone from spawning in at an active runway w/o knowing the group rules.

Yep, that would be nice - but don’t they have something similar to that with virtual airlines?

These comments puzzle me. To me, having MP turned on is about as unrealistic as it gets. It’s so far from reality that it’s laughable. Yet people insist that MP is “ultimate in realism” and insist on having it on, but complain about the shenanigans of others’ flying, spawning in on runways, etc.

With MP enabled, you have yahoos in all kinds of planes - both real and fantasy - flying all over the place following no rules or ATC. You have people spawning on runways - sometimes sitting there for extended periods of time at busy airports, people using opposite ends of the runway than you are, driving through you on taxiways, barnstorming over major airports. (Sure, if people want to do that, knock yourself out. You paid for the game. Play it the way you want to. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t.)

Add to that the small subset of griefers who go out of their way to try to interfere with other players coming in on approach, crashing live stream group flights, etc. All things you would NEVER see IRL.

This is why it puzzles me. I can’t fathom how anyone can consider this “realism”.

The only perk of having MP enabled (outside of group flights) is you get a lot more traffic than with live or offline traffic (built-in or 3rd party). But quantity does not equal quality.

In any case, I want most of my flights to be as realistic as possible, so I have MP disabled. I only turn it on when participating in group flights. So I don’t really care about how others fly or where they spawn. I don’t ever have to deal with them.

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Does “multiplayer” default to “ON” on any platform?  Do people perhaps not realize that they’re in multiplayer mode?

I do things as a matter of course that would be totally unacceptable in a M.P. environment, and I don’t go there to experiment - like practicing takeoffs and transition to level flight - then resetting to the runway to try it again. . .

:+1:

I think there’s an ideal involved in using MP in that whoever is using it expects people to meet them at their level, otherwise it’s an empty or sterile (AI) world, which isn’t realistic, either.

So if you want to just enjoy the world of free flight, or just be goofy and see others do the same, that should be an option. If you want to do it right and/or learn to do it right, that should be an option as well.

I don’t see why it needs to remain an all-or-nothing endeavor. If anything, I think providing options would increase participation across the board.

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It may be plausible to make both camps a little happier. Right now the only difference between all players and live players is the live weather, what if it removed runway spawns as well?

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That implies a multi-realm multi-player environment where groups of multi-players can congregate and make their own rules.

  • Strict ATC, separation, controlled airspace, flight plans, etc. etc. etc.
  • Or, an “Open Sky” userspace where you can do what you darn well please.

The big problem with multiplayer is that - especially when using VATSIM or IVAO - they only have one gigantic userspace for everyone. I don’t know if you can create a “let’s you, me, and Charlie play” situation like you can with other games - linking only with the players you want to play with.

One of my favorite “realistic” scenarios, (when I’m beginning to get a bit arrogant about my skills), is to fly to some arbitrary altitude out in the middle of God’s Green Nowhere, then reach down and - snick! - hit the master power switch. There I am at 3000’, 5000’, or whatever feet AGL with engine out and everything cold-and-dark, thinking “That’s another fine mess you’ve gotten us into, Ollie!”

Land - and not kill yourself.
Reaching an actual runway is extra points.