Sensitivity on my hardware is working good! It’s not a problem related to them.
The issue is how the plane interacts with the ground, moving faster than it should do in reality.
It looks like a game or a video speeded up 3X.
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Thanks for that!
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I think they said that this will be changed in su10.
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Per the Q&A
Chat question – What are some improvements that are coming for ground friction and handling?- Timestamp
Seb – Four new parameters are coming in Sim Update 10. Two of them are going to give the possibility to eliminate or at least tune, but we decided to cancel it out on our plane where we tested it. Basically, an old feature that we kept from FSX. FSX was canceling out all crosswind below a certain speed. At 50 knots, you had 100% crosswind, and then it was fading out to 10 knots and then it was 0. The problem is, while you take off or land, the crosswind keeps changing. And it’s very unnatural. So this is something where, in the parameters for the plane you can say at what speeds you want this to happen. So on the Cessna 172, we’re testing this, so we basically canceled the effect completely. So you have a 100% crosswind even if you are parked, or if you go very slow. If there is a lot of wind, it can actually spin your plane around, at first. So that’s one of the new parameters.
Seb – And the other one, two parameters are there to allow you to control how sticky your wheels are when they are rolling fast. So when you are already going pretty fast in the takeoff, the sim was considering the wheels to be pretty much on rails as if there were slick tires from a Formula 1 car. Very sticky. And only the weight…so if you pull on the yoke, your plane gets a bit lighter. And the weight goes down, which reduces friction a little bit. But it’s still static. So it means that as long as you don’t push to the side strong enough, you’re still on rails. And so, there’s two parameters that allow you to make it so that the plane drifts off. The wheels are spinning so if you push to the side, it’s going to drift off a little bit, especially with plane tires that are not anything but racing tires. So we tested that with taildraggers. Taildraggers will always be hard to land and takeoff. But it’s a lot more natural and easy with that. So this is something we implemented on the Extra 330 for Sim Update 10. Also, plane makers have examples of how this works, so they can use it, too. We will deploy on more based on feedback. These four parameters are a first step on improving the ground handling. So more stuff will come afterwards. But Sim Update 10 is going to be these four.
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I really don’t get it. It almost seems like very basic physical principles are being ignored. The transition between flight and ground dynamics is currently very binary. The instant the nose wheel makes contact all directional (yaw) authority is transferred to the nose wheel and the rudder becomes null. In most cases when landing in any sort of crosswind (even ten degrees off runway centerline) at any sort of velocity above three or four knots, the aircraft “windmills” into the oncoming wind: this is simply wrong.
As I said, I don’t get it. The corrections Seb talks about make it sound like it will actually get worse. That would be a shame, because the Ground Physics - at the moment - are pretty awful.
IMHO the ground handling is the single worst ongoing issue in MSFS, and has been since day one. Fingers crossed I’m reading Seb’s comments wrong, or simply not understanding, and that the “four parameters” will help correct this long-standing issue.
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This is one of the longest-standing problems in the sim. I’m surprised it hasn’t had more traction [sic]. I really hope they’re going to get to grips with it in SU 10.
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Yes, I hope they just do not let it SLIDE [sic], and SLIP into the cracks [sic]
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Most probably a FOV problem. We tend to use much wider FOV than in real, to see the whole cockpit. Makes the perception of speed completely wrong, way too fast. We need proper FOV values on all cams, instead just nonsense values, that are different on every cam.
Friction is something this software has never modeled correctly. We are talking decades.
It’s not the speed when you land but the lack of deceleration when the wheels touch the ground. You have to struggle to slow down the plane. I use the C172 in short runways and observe this. The brakes must be on fire when you finally stop. And be careful with elevator pressure because the nose can make you take off when the plane should have slowed down enough already to keep your main gear on the ground.
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That’s very true. Even if you are rolling over grass with the throttle completely closed, the thing will go on forever. It never stops.
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Again, excess speed will do all of those things. I don’t have any of these problems.
To many in the community, including real pilots, the ground friction simulation stands out as by far the most noticeable shortcoming of the sim. There have been some improvements since the sim launched, however it still behaves quite unrealistically and is not on par with the other parts of the flight model. Please vote to get this topic more attention.
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I agree with you. I am an RL pilot flying both Cessna and Piper. My airport is of the windy kind and we are sometimes close to the maximum performance of each aircraft on take-offs and landings. the way these aircraft, in MSFS in windy conditions are behaving (floating), is a little unfamiliar to me. I hope and expect that Asobo will be able to do some adjustments here.
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I agree also. PPL irl.
Wind gusting is great now. Or at least a huge improvement. Much more realistic and challenging.
It is just the skidding around on the runway that’s lacking.
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I don’t understand how this topic hasn’t received more votes by now. Every serious simmer bashes MSFS for its ground handling. And yet the issue has never made it on the feedback snapshot.
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Added my vote. I’m not really sure why your new wishlist request was added to this old one however.
The problems we have now are specifically related to SU10 and the new implementation of wind gusts on friction, which needs to be address as a matter of urgency, rather than just a continued request to improve an aspect of the sim.
I feel this deserves to be a new bug request specifically related to SU10 and the Cessna 172 which I think is the plane they have added the new data to.
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There is a dedicated thread on the turbulence already. In my thread I was solely talking about ground friction, which this this thread is for.
Yes, I get that but the ground friction has been altered in SU10. I had no issues prior to SU10 so in them merging your new thread with an old thread it just makes it look like nobody is reporting new problems since SU10 and this is just adding to the general improvements request.
For me, right now, the Cessna 172 is broken on take off, because of the additions they have made in SU10. I want them address that as a matter of urgency, not just think ‘we’ll merge your wishlist request with one from a year ago so it will continue to be ignored.’ The problems in SU10 are new, not the same problems as last year. Hope that makes sense.