Polar Routes

[InductedMage632]

Are polar routes ever gonna be fixed on msfs? In previous simulation all routes directions were open without the plane falling from the sky and crossings successfully.

[SkyWarrior7407]

I seem to recall during the expo hearing in one of the panels that this would be addressed in MSFS 2024. Don’t quote me, I could have read it somewhere.

[InductedMage632]

I hope there’s gonna be a fix soon now that we got the long haul jets available. Building those routes help save time sometimes if you plan long haul routes crossing the North Pole or south.

[DementedCorn327]

@InductedMage632

In previous simulation all routes directions were open

Are you reporting that navaids for polar routes are missing ? or that in a previous sim there was an option to select polar routes in the flight planner maybe ?

@InductedMage632

without the plane falling from the sky

What do you mean by that ?

[InductedMage632]

What I’m saying is that if you build a polar route in the current msfs2020 and you’re going long haul for example omdb-klax and you use pfpx to build your route and you want to cross the North Pole the plane during the crossing of the North Pole will drop out of the sky into water hrs later. In previous simulation like prepar3d all routes directions were open without issues like that. Now that there’s the long haul jets like pmdg 777 available I hope these routes will be fixed once and for all.

[WinningYard5086]

@InductedMage632

What I’m saying is that if you build a polar route in the current msfs2020 and your going long haul for example omdb-klax and you use pfpx to build your route and you want to cross the North Pole the plane during the crossing of the North Pole will drop out of the sky into water hrs later. In previous simulation like prepar3d all routes directions were open without issues like that. Now that there’s the long haul jets like pmdg 777 available I hope these routes will be fixed once and for all.

Interesting. Has anyone else tried a polar route and observed what happens to the aircraft?

[GimbalAxis]

Yes, I recently set out to fly directly over the pole (NOPOL is a waypoint). However, it’s not clear if this is magnetic or true…

The trick is to understand that the flight path will look crazy, and as you pass the pole, the weather (barometric pressure) changes all over the place, so the plane trying to stay at the correct altitude may find itself under or over where it thinks it should be. If you think the plane can’t handle the changes, turn off auto pilot and just fly straight and level till you are past the pole.

North Pole in the 787 on Xbox

After seeing a video about real world polar flights (Tokyo to Oslo, over the North Pole, I think) I decided to try my luck from PANC Anchorage to ENGM Oslo, on Xbox X in the 787-10. I flew due north on the 150 West longitude to 90N150W (there is a waypoint NOPOL at 90N000W which is essentially the same point - once you are at 90N all the longitudes converge to a point). (I’m assuming all coordinates are Magnetic and not True, because there doesn’t appear to be a switch for True on the 787) Her…

[dectenor1]

I’m scared to a do a long flight now.

How close do you have to go to the North Pole for it to fall out of the sky?

[WinningYard5086]

@GimbalAxis

Yes, I recently set out to fly directly over the pole (NOPOL is a waypoint). However, it’s not clear if this is magnetic or true…

The trick is to understand that the flight path will look crazy, and as you pass the pole, the weather (barometric pressure) changes all over the place, so the plane trying to stay at the correct altitude may find itself under or over where it thinks it should be. If you think the plane can’t handle the changes, turn off auto pilot and just fly straight and level till you are past the pole.

North Pole in the 787 on Xbox

Thank you very much for the detailed commentary about your experience. I must plan to try this!

[WinningYard5086]

@dectenor1

I’m scared to a do a long flight now.

How close do you have to go to the North Pole for it to fall out of the sky?

I think the trick is to switch off automation (Auto Pilot etc) and fly the aircraft manually to go over the poles.

[dectenor1]

OK.

But how close to you have to go for this to be an issue? Like when do I need to start doing this?

[GimbalAxis]

In the video I took, I left AP on, and all was ok on that flight, but I was ready to disable AP if the plane started going out of control.

[DementedCorn327]

@GimbalAxis

and as you pass the pole, the weather (barometric pressure) changes all over the place, so the plane trying to stay at the correct altitude may find itself under or over where it thinks it should be

So the issue reported by the OP with the plane dropping out would be due to the incorrect pressure in Live Weather for that part of the planet ?.

[InductedMage632]

Not that I know of but me I always flew those routes to LAX or SFO and Seattle either from OMDB and OTHH. But now since the 777 came in msfs2020 and I tried those routes as I did once before in prepar3d, the route isn’t successful at all the plane will fall from the sky to the sea as if there’s a wall or something which doesn’t make sense.

[WinningYard5086]

I managed to trim down the over the pole route ( from @GimbalAxis) to a bare minimum (I think). BKSQ Duke requires around 6.30 hours (as per littlenav map). Refueling will be a cheat I am assuming this route will be a valid polar route!

Wiley Post-Will Rogers Memoria (PABR) to Airportek.Enas.Name (ENAS)

PABR N0282A135 8000N15000W 8500N15000W NOPOL 8500N01000E 8000N01000E ENAS

Set LittleNav Map to project spherical view once the above route is imported to LittleNav map.

main menu View → Projection

I will bot be able to try this today, but one day I will try this.

[InductedMage632]

Just don’t crash somewhere along the route. Can be tricky sometimes . Wonder when will the problem be solved on these routes.

[InductedMage632]

This is one of the route i made btw “DEMBO3 DEMBO DCT EMISA DCT VELAM DCT VEDED DCT ITUMA DCT RABLA DCT BOPOV DCT ROSAN DCT SOGAN DCT MIDSI DCT KAVAM DCT DURSI DCT KATAG DCT LAGSA DCT SR DCT KINOT DCT DEDAK DCT BONEG DCT YZD DCT BOMIT DCT DANEM DCT SOGOT DCT ORSOK DCT ALMUD DCT RIBEN DCT TBS DCT DAPIN DCT IMKUK DCT RABAM DCT SBZ DCT BONEM DCT SILPO DCT RIKOP DCT GH DCT PODOK DCT MAVAX DCT DOMOL DCT TUMBA DCT TOSDO DCT TIMGA DCT DSH DCT ADOBI DCT KURAB DCT LATNU DCT INKUM DCT BAKID DCT RITET DCT ABIGU DCT SURAR DCT GOSPA DCT BATAD DCT ADEKU DCT KUSUM DCT DOKUT DCT BIMSO DCT AGMIL DCT NIBOD DCT NERUG DCT ATMES DCT KABAT DCT LUGIK DCT AGMUS DCT ENIRA DCT BAPLI DCT SORLI DCT OKIMI DCT BELEG DCT SULOR DCT VIPRA DCT MASUL DCT BURIB DCT ATSEK DCT MADUN DCT SH DCT RORNI DCT MEBOR DCT MOGTO DCT REBSI DCT ADERA DCT TUMOK DCT LUGOT DCT MELAM DCT KELIM DCT 8525N08001E 8703N09001E 8747N09959E 8810N10958E 8826N11958E 8837N13000E 8842N14002E 8844N15000E 8845N16001E 8840N16957E 8831N17957W 8821N16859W 8806N16000W 8738N15007W 87N141W 85N130W 80N124W 75N122W 70N121W 64N120W 6000N11933W DCT MERCH DCT PARQE DCT GETNG DCT TEMPL DCT EPH DCT PSC DCT PDT DCT KOATA DCT GASSI DCT LOMIA DCT CANDA DCT PPARK DCT PASKE DCT IVECU DCT MDWAY DCT FRASR IRNMN2” That’s OTHH-KLAX.

[DreamsurferSWE]

Was this fixed in 2024?

[InductedMage632]

I didn’t try msfs2024 yet pmdg didn’t release there yet. But only thing I know is the center of the polar crossing isn’t good. If you look at Navi graph map and look close at the circle in the north pole that circle only way through is go around it not over it so that part needs a fix.

[GimbalAxis]

The issue with polar routes is that a lot of the sim sees the world as flat, not as a sphere. So if you take a flat map and try to wrap it around a sphere you get nav and weather data bunching up and contradicting at the poles. This causes a few quirks that manifest like this:

1. The navigation, flight plan, has a hard time calculating where it’s supposed to go as you pass over.

2. More interesting is that it appears from the instruments, that the weather data - also from a flat map - also gets “bunched up” around the pole, such that you might be flying through a whole lot of different barometric pressures in quick succession - each likely from different longitudes, merging/overlapping at / near the pole.

The combination of those 2 things makes it hard for the sim to do calculations, and for the plane to know where it is both laterally and vertically.

I believe they could fix it by “harmonizing” (or blurring, blending) METARs near the pole, and come up with some harmonizing math for navigating above the 85 lattitudes.