Poll: GA Planes' Turning/Rolling Tendencies During Long Flights

Hah - sounds like everyday pilot life to me ;D ;D ;D

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It’s possible that in my last flight I got up into some wind that kept trying to turn my C172 to the left. But in the Bonanza I don’t think wind was the issue because I had the same left rolling tendency in every flight. I tried setting the aileron trim using the mouse but I couldn’t find the sweet spot. There actually seemed to be a bug with the aileron increments.

I fly mostly GA and almost never with AP. So I do many hours in the likes of the XCub, Spitfire and some others just hand flying. I nearly always find I can trim it out so I’m hands off with semi regular corrections. Obviously if there is rudder trim like the Spitfire this is easy. The Xcub hasn’t so I have to hand fly until I’ve used up enough fuel on the left tank to balance it then I flick the fuel switch left and right to keep it balanced. I mostly avoid planes that I can’t balance with rudder trim or fuel.

I’ve long thought that it would be great if I could use rudder trim on planes that didn’t actually have it. I wouldn’t go any further than that though, I really want everything to be as realistic as possible, but with a twist stick for rudder that’s a huge disadvantage to pedals and so not realistic, always having rudder trim would help make it more realistic not less. I’ve never had aileron trim mapped so didn’t know that always works as claimed above. If it does then I think that solves the problem.

As it happened I finally bought the pedals even though I thought I never would because I fly from the sofa. It’s so much better with pedals and now I don’t really worry about it. Both the rudder and brakes are so much better to use that I wouldn’t want to go back. So I’d say keep your options open on pedals, give it serious consideration.

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Sorry for that static noise, noticed my mic boost is set too high.

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Thanks for that :slight_smile: Are you on SU9 beta version? SU9 has apparently introduced left turning tendency in the C172. Lately I have been flying in live weather, so wind could be more of a factor.

Yes I am using the SU9 beta.

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Also, in my last flight, I was really hauling it big-time (going as fast as I could without yellow-lining). I’ll see what happens on my end at slow speed on the clear skies preset.

No problem flying straight and level in the clear skies preset. But at a higher angle of attack, plus live weather/wind, the plane’s left rolling tendency starts to shine :wink:

I filed a bug report on the forum for the autorudder binds being broken. I suppose I should hit zendesk too.

To be clear, I do not want to use autorudder all the time, only when I get annoyed by the planes rolling tendencies.

So IRL rudders are required to keep the aircraft momentum in a turn perpendicular as well. You can see this by the little bar under the triangle in the G1000 (keep the cheese on the cracker).
However - this will rather improve your turns (stable turns no “pushing over”) and is almost always wind induced. If you are flying straight it might show - but is far less common (well, depending on the wind of corse - but mostly it shows in turns).

In older arcraft you have something which looks like a spirit level (with a little black ball) - and the order is always - keep the ball centered. Rule of thumb: Push the paddle the ball is rolling towards (or you cracker) - also called “push the ball”.

Cessna 152 / 172 are not so receptible for this- but lighter aircraft like a pipistrel will be less forgiving. Bad turning / push turning can even lead to uneven fuel consumption (I even experienced this IRL with a Flightdesign CT). So keep the ball centered! :wink:

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I don’t disagree with you on that and know what an inclinometer is. Yes, I know the whole “stepping on the ball” thing. :slight_smile:

Just something to consider: basically every GA aircraft without a real rudder trim system has a bendable trim tab on the rudder. This can only be adjusted on the ground of course but after several flights of trial and error, you arrive at a position that does keep the aircraft in proper trim in cruise flight (where you spend most of your time.) So there’s arguably nothing unrealistic about doing what is necessary to trim out your sim aircraft to fly mostly hands(and feet)-off in cruise. Seriously, even the simplest Cub or experimental aircraft has this trim tab.

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This has been one of my big things in all flight sims. Even in really well-designed add-on planes like the A2A Cherokee for P3D, the “leaning” tendencies during flight are way overdone. It isn’t the prop that causes it in the sim (or real life for that matter), it’s the imbalance in the fuel tanks. In sims if the fuel balance is off by a teaspoon the plane will knife-edge (I’m obviously exaggerating). In real life you have to have a pretty decent fuel imbalance in a GA single to have any pronounced “leaning” tendency. It gets annoying in the sim, especially if you never use the autopilot like me.

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It is worth noting that you do not really notice even quite serious corrections needed in real life as it becomes automatic. It is no different to the way you keep your car in the correct lane on a country road without even thinking about it.

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Interestingly enough a long time ago there was a late 70s or early 80s 172 I noticed that did have the ability to adjust the rudder trim from the cockpit. This can’t be a very common thing and I doubt it’s something found on 172s these days.

With the yoke centered, I get a really strong roll on the Bonanza that I can’t trim out with rudder trim. I can’t believe the real aircraft has such a strong roll that the manufacturer did not compensate for in some way.

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There’s an aileron trim wheel on the pedastal below the throttle quadrant to adjust for any roll from torque, P-factor, fuel imbalance,etc.

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If correctly rigged left turn tendencies should not exist in cruise or be minimal. All kind of features are usually implemented to cancel those out at cruise speed with cruise power set.

Wind does not affect an aircraft when in-flight, it only affects the ground track / ground speed. Angle of attack should affect P-factor which should cause left yaw, but I have not seen this in SU9 Beta at all, not sure about pre-beta.

Uncoordinated flight has nothing todo with wind, absolutely nothing.

Temperature difference?

I don’t know specifically about the TBM but being a single engine turboprop is has a lot of torque. Not sure if the manufacturer has done something about that. Does it have aileron trim?

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I am getting left turn tendencies in the C172 in SU9 when pitching the nose up at high engine RPM. The last time I flew the G36, the plane wanted to roll to the left all the time. I believe the G36 has aileron and/or rudder trim but I have a hard time finding the sweet spot to stop the roll, and the trim must vary depending on engine RPM.