[PSA] XPForce force-feedback will be coming to FS2020!

Hello Jim. Some questions about the XPForce Plugin for the MSFS 2020 with my Force Feedback 2… I mean, there is no vibration effect for gears and speedbrakes!? Also when i bring the slider full to the right, i dont feel anything! And is speedbrakes also flaps? Because there is no effect when the flaps are out.

With my X-Plane 11 XPForce, i get always a nice vibration effects for landing gear and flaps…

Should i activate the alternate trim or not with my FFB 2? And what is the best choice: Center, Servo, Aero…?

Thank you very much! :wink:

I really appreciate that. Just being able to see the “current” formulas being used, would be of great interest to me, to fully appreciate what is going on, and of course, wound allow a more informative feedback to you.

It’s your IP, but maybe you are willing to share. I donl’t think there is much competition to your product actually in the market yet (ie FsForce), but anyone else developing such a product already now how to do all this, and probably would end up using formulas close to yours, so what does it matter.

I can tell you this, as a consumer, I would far favor your product over any others that may “pop up in the future”, even if their was slightly “better - or whatever” because yours comes with Unsurpassed Support - 2nd to none … :wink:

I test this XPForce today. Is like a fake force feedback. When steering the plane there is no reaction to stall. There is no real connection to the plane.

Of course it’s fake / simulated feedback … :open_mouth:

So what would you have it do, that you think it is not doing at the moment. ?

If you want any issues addressed, you would stand a lot more chance, if you explained in some detail what you consider to be wrong, why, and what you think it should be doing instead.

Really not my place to say this, but give the developer a bit more than “it’s fake” !!

Maybe submit a analysis of what you consider to be wrong, like you did when you were a “Tech Alpha Insider”, and had MSFS before everyone else, so you could test it and help get any Bugs fixed.

I am sure when you took on that responsibility, you did not submit reports to ZenDesk, like “It’s fake” ??? You gave a lot more details, to help get the issues solved.

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MRTNAIRLINES - this was reported by someone else but I tested it many times and it’s definitely working across all the standard aircraft with retractable gear. I was never able to get any more information before though - at the very least, the exact aircraft you’re using and the airspeed.
The alt-trim is highly recommended but it’s up to you, as is the best mode for autopilot which depends on your preferences and the individual aircraft type. Just try them out and see what works best for you.

N6722C - In most cases there’s way more than just a single formula so it would get complicated quickly. I’m also not happy with giving out details of how I do the calculations, because that’s the hard part and writing and selling things like this is my day-job, not a hobby so making it any easier for others to compete isn’t really a good idea. Sorry, I know you’re interested. I’ll make a point of adding more detail to the manual about the specific conditions for some of the forces at least - maybe for the next beta release which should be in the next day or two.

CONVEEN - Yes, if you were one of the insiders then you should know how to write a bug report. Someone else reported a problem with buffeting effects on FS2020 which I suspect may also affect this, I’ll check, but without knowing what you experienced and what you expected there’s nothing I can do. If there is something wrong then I want to fix it, but I need to know what it is and how to reproduce the problem.

I fully understand, did not appreciate it was your day-job, would not want Russel catching up to easily

As long as the App works, and you continue with the great support, I’m 100% happy.
I don’t NEED to know the internals, as long as it works

I don’t want to offend anyone, especially when someone tries to get something going.
I don’t have the force feedback feeling in the air at different speeds. With a fast airplane the resistance is greater and at slow speed you shouldn’t feel any pressure, or when you get into the stall you have zero force on the stick. When the landing gear is extended or retracted or when the flaps are set i don’t feel anything. Even with different strong winds, no change can be felt. When you try IL2 sturmovik oder IL2 cliffs oder dover, there it is most time perfect.

Not offended at all, just frustrated. It’s far too common to get one-line comments like “it doesn’t work” with either no information, or not enough for me to actually see the problem for myself to test.

As I said, I need to know what aircraft you’re flying and what the airspeed is when you’re lowering the gear. The effect you get isn’t just on or off depending on the gear status. The same for the control surface force strength in the air - I need to know the exact aircraft to get the stall and never-exceed speeds, where you are in the world to gauge ambient air pressure, whether or not it has hydraulic assistance on the controls, whether the hydraulic system is working…

There could be something wrong, of course. However, I tested every aircraft in the sim just a couple of weeks ago specifically for gear-down vibrations and they all worked so you need to tell me precisely what to do if I’m to have any hope of finding a problem, or explaining it if it’s by design.

Hi. I tried it again… The gear vibration effects are sometimes not active, then after restart the sim it works, then during the flight it is not active again and so on. I mean, when i do some changes in the XPForce settings, the gear effect will totally gone. But all other effects are still and always active. Only the gear goes on and off. I tried it with all aircrafts with a retractable gear.

But for the flaps, I have absolutely never a vibration effect on my FFB 2. I tried it with all aircrafts and max. in the settings.

And does the plugin automatically update at the start of the sim…?

Thanks!

Excellent, thank you, that gives me something much more specific to test. As it stands there’s nothing in there for flap deployment but you’re right, there probably should be so I’ll add that for the next version.

Ah, was just about to write that I also don’t have effects for flap deployment with my FFB2. Now I know why! :slight_smile: Thanks, @jimkeir, will look forward to that in the next version!

Hi Jim. Yesterday i did some flights with different aircrafts and i had no vibration for the gears at the first flight. I thought, it will only come and go, when i make some adjustments in the settings during the flight. But it was from a fresh first MFS start no gear effects… Why is this be so occasionally?

I thought, on X-Plane 11 we have a very small stick shaking when the gear locks in at the end positions? So we can feel its in and out. Can you also bring this little nice feature on MSF 2020 :wink:

And does the plugin always automatically update at the start of the sim, or can we do this manually…?

Thanks!

Jim, thanks for your work here. I use the plugin happily, but one thing that I suppose I do miss, are good ground based haptics from the runway thumps from my sometimes less than perfect landings along with runway vibrations that are speed dependant. I suppose this might apply to gear thumps as well, during retraction and extension.The feedback that I get on the G940 is all there, but if it were more nuanced it would be a great addition to what you have already achieved.

Thank you once more.

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First up, there’s a new test build at https://www.fsmissioneditor.com/downloads/ on the BETA tab.

There’s no auto-update but there is a check. The check picks up full releases only, not test builds, so it won’t show this one just yet.

I’ve fixed the problem with gear-down and other vibration effects, thanks to the additional information on how to reproduce the problem - it was basically forgetting what state it was in and not updating properly after it had cycled a couple of times which was why I never saw the problem in basic tests. There’s also added vibrations for flap-down and one or two other minor changes.

@Magic6420 - there are definitely both speed-dependent vibrations and contact thumps already (but not retract/extend thumps, but that’s noted). Try adjusting the levels if they’re not detectable, each aircraft type can behave differently. Failing that, let me know what type it is so I can test specifics.

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Will do Jim, but it might be a few days until I am allowed out to play.

Hi. I mean, the Boeing 787 have no gear effect. I tried it with the slider max. to the right, but no vibration… Speedbrakes works fine.

And sometimes immediately after starting windows, i get an automatic start for XPForce with loading the Flight Simulator. How can it be…? :slight_smile:

Did you install the new version from the beta tab on the page I posted? IIRC the version is shown at the top of the config dialog so if you’re not sure you can just post the version number. I’m away from home for the next few days so I can’t test any more until the end of the week but there were definitely fixes for gear-down in there.

I have no idea why it would be starting with Windows, sorry. There’s nothing in there that tries to do this so I think just check Windows startup items - msconfig I think.

Hi Jim. Yes, i have the new Beta installed… No gear vibration effect for the Boeing 787. But it is not so important for me, i fly mostly GA :wink:

I checked my Windows Autostart settings, there is nothing wrong with it. Mysterious :slight_smile:

Thank you for your reply!

Cheers

Thanks for this, I’ve worked out exactly what the problem is and why I wasn’t able to see it. I’ve refreshed the beta download to add a workaround for Deluxe/Premium specific aircraft which will improve or enable gear vibrations and bumps, control strength, and hydraulics. Please try this out (V1.0.9781, beta tab on the normal download page) and let me know if it’s finally fixed.

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Hi. Thank you for your work… Yesterday i tried the new Beta with the Deluxe Aircrafts Diamond DA-20 and the Pipistrel Virus and i mean, there was generally too much strength on the stick now. Normally i have the strength slider for roll and pitch on the left side, so i got low pressure on the stick. But now with the new Beta, i have too much pressure when i move the stick around. Even with all sliders max. to the left, i have very much and unrealistic pressure on the stick for my roll and pitch movement.

And i also tried some flights through storm and heavy winds with this small aircrafts, while shaking around, i got nearly no effects on my stick. On some gusts, there should be a very noticeable effect on the stick!?

On the Robin DR400 for example, it was still fine. Maybe the problem is only for the Deluxe Aircrafts…? :wink:

Thank you + Cheers!