Question about spending order on sim gear

User Support Hub Hardware & Peripherals
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Hi All,

My first post.

I am looking to start my Flight siming adventure and I have few specific questions.

I did not plan on buying any sim gear as of yet but I stumbled upon a promotion for Honeycomb Alpha for 179 euro and same price for Bravo totaling at 365 shipped.

That is a great starter kit for the price but then I started to check rudder pedals and here is where I have questions.

Would I better getting:

  1. Mentioned Honeycomb combo of Alpha + Bravo and some better quality rudder pedals in 200 to 300 range to match the Honeycomb set or

  2. Maybe I should opt for Alpha XPC yoke + Bravo and some cheap Thrust-master / Logitech rudder pedals? XPC would be almost double the promotional price of Alpha. But I would imagine I would be better off with best yoke I can afford as the most used item during flight (is XPC worth double the price of Alpha from long term perspective)? In this scenario to compensate for more expensive yoke I would buy either Logitech or Thrustmaster cheapest pedals.

  3. How important to the whole experience rudder pedals are? I will be flying in Reverb G2 mostly GAs to start with, as a relaxing, sightseeing and learning to fly with possibility of following up with real life leisure certification etc.

I am heavily invested into sim racing, with all out sim rig so I know that the gear I will buy now will not go to waste. Even if I find I am not into flying that much, I know I will put some hours in and I will get my worth out of it and I can sell it afterwards so going straight for better quality stuff is a way of saving on upgraditis, which otherwise would settle pretty soon if I start enjoying.

But at the same time I like to do it wisely. So for example if XPC is really that much better than Alpha - maybe I should spend almost double for it and get some cheapo rudder pedals which I can upgrade later.

But from what I can see Logitech pedals are about 140 delivered when all metal pedals from NL are around 200 and what seems like quite high end ones from Croatia around 350? So that is not a massive difference over plastic Logitech pedals… hmmm…

I would really appreciate advice :slight_smile:

I can also see Honeycomb releasing their pedals in few weeks… do we already know how good those should be?

And final question - I am guessing that Bravo with VR still makes sense? - I will just have to build some muscle memory to use it efficiently?

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Welcome to the forum.

I have a Thrustmaster joystick, thrustmaster pedals and a Honeycomb Bravo quadrant.

They all work well together but did require re-binding the Joystick to avoid duplicates with the Bravo.

The Thrustmaster pedals are lightweight but function OK, and for the price they are good VFM.

With the Bravo quadrant there is software that needs to be downloaded and installed to get the LEDs to function.

If using the Alpha and Bravo together then the bindings including the Bravo switches need to be rebound to avoid conflicts.

I will eventually get an Alpha.

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Welcome to a bigger world of flight simming…

I run an Alpha Yoke & Bravo throttle quadrant, as well as logitech Rudder Peddles. It’s a good set up, but BE WARNED, you really need to consider getting either Spad.Next or Axis&Ohs (Not sure if thats right). Setting up the amazing yoke and throttles in the sim, don’t do it…. Just saying.

At any rate, go for the cheaper yoke instead of the X-Box (XPC) one, unless you plan on using it on an xbox, it’s a waste of money. I love honeycombs products though, so deff if you can get them a little cheaper, go for. But you NEED rudder peddles too, and unfortunately you really do get what you pay for. The Logitech ones are far better than the thrustmaster one, Not certain how others are though.

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Worth investing in a good set of rudder pedals and not buying something cheap and cheerful. Absolutely avoid ones with a centre detent and get ones with HAL sensors not old school potentiometers.
The MFG crosswind pedals are really good for all aircraft types. Had mine for several years now and they have worked flawlessly. Worth the money.

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@sebna1218 Just to point out, that’s not the only difference between the 2 models. The XPC has double the resolution too and I believe a longer throw (push / pull range).

I have the XPC and never used the original so can’t compare but just thought I’d say.

That current offer is a great price for the 1st version of the yoke though. And the Bravo. They have them in Currys (UK) for £149 each and I’m dead tempted to get the Bravo and squeeze it onto my desk somehow.

I also use Logitech pedals and USB throttle quadrant. They do the job but definitely the weakest parts of my setup now. The pedals are a bit “sticky” in that you can’t really make small precise inputs - more kind of notchy where it doesn’t move until you put more pressure then moves too much (not sure why as there aren’t any notches, maybe some nice grease could make it better) and the TQ is very plasticky and noisy (not volume but the detection of position by the game jumps around sometimes). The reverse thrust switch has failed on me on 2 units within 2 weeks light use. But it fits on my desk perfectly and it’s OK for GA’s really.

Not desperate to change but I know better gear for those would be good.

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You have to do your own research on this and buy based on what is important to you. We can all give out opinions but rest assured many of them are based on just the use of that product by themselves with little to no comparison to other offerings. I have had the use of several peripherals down the years and generally you get what you pay for when comparing normal retail prices. My advice would be to avoid low quality plastic construction. All or mainly metal gives a much better experience and will last. The Logitech/Saitek yoke and pedals are by comparison to other stuff very low end so unless that’s all you can afford they are best avoided. You’ll find a lot of users have them but that’s primarily because at one time that was all that was available for less than $1000 or more. They are really outdated now.

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I’d recommend grabbing the Alpha and Bravo. I love mine in VR. Cost difference for XPC not worth it if you’re on PC. I use the TM TFRP pedals for more than two years and am happy with them, on a value basis. Also, I’ve had no need for third/party software to have Bravo lights work - never had a problem with AFC_Bridge software for the Bravo lights.

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Sim peripherals are a very personal thing, based mostly on your own likes and dislikes and immersion needs. I Have a ton of peripherals and love them all dearly as they make the experience complete for me.

BUT… for varous personal reasons, I dont use rudder pedals. Instead I use the rocker switches on the Velocity One Yoke. My choice of not using rudder pedals pretty much limits me to this yoke as no other (that I know of) has those kind of controls. You see - all very personal choice.

Here is one tip that may help you: I ordered pedals off of Amazon and tried them out. After I realised I dont want to use rudders, I simply sent them back and got my money refunded. No harm done.

That all being said: cant go wrong with the Honeycomb Bravo. Its versatile and enjoyable and there are many add ons on Etsy. And despite what was said before, you DONT need Spad or any other 3rd party software to use them.

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Don’t cheap out on rudder pedals, if they are not smooth it will really affect your GA and rotary flying. I have the Thrustmaster TFRP and they are not good. I had to get them because off the xbox restriction and I’ve had to try and mod them and dry lube them, they are just about OK now but I wish I could have got something better.

The Thrustmaster Hotas is OK and great value, I had to mod the throttle following a thread on this forum, but it works nicely now.

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I use Alpha, Bravo + Logitech pro pedals.

The Logitech pedals are not top notch but sufficient enough for flight simming.
I also fly IRL but in the sim, most of the time you only really use pedals during taxi and with crosswind landings.
In turns you only apply very light pressure on the pedals (for most planes). For me, the poorly simulated rudder inputs don’t justify buying very expensive pedals. If you’re on a budget, I’d save on the pedals.

Now one thing to keep an eye on are Force Feedback yokes.
There aren’t many available ATM, but I guess that’s going to change in the future.
Trimming is a real pain in the sim, but with force feedback this should become much easier.

Here’s one of the first ones on the market ASAIK.

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Thank you all for taking time to answer and for giving me plenty of great advice from different angles.

I think I know what I will do about rudder pedals.

The last thing for me to understand is how much of a difference increased resolution of XPC yoke makes for flying GAs vs original Alpha.

Alpha is 256 points of resolution vs about 1024 for XPC, which is quite a difference but as I am coming from Simracing background I just don’t understand how could they design a Yoke in 2019 with only 256 points of resolution? There is really no excuse for it. In steering wheels resolution goes into thousands points for many, many years so why do only 256 in 2019 for kind of top tier yoke? It is not like technology was not there or was very expensive.

On the other hand they have already announced new versions of Honeycomb to replace Alpha and XPC. Both new models focusing on further increasing of the resolution in compare to existing models (so now Honeycomb see the clear need for it? Why only now?).

The refresh of Alpha (called Alpha Lite) will have 1024 points of resolution and will also be pot based (199 USD).

And the refresh of XPC (called Alpha Pro) will be hall based (as is XPC) and will have 16096 points of resolution and cost 299 USD.

Those are rumoured / expected to launch Q4 2023 or Q1 / Q2 2024.

So I am a bit torn what to do about a Yoke choice.

On one hand I like cheap and cheerful Alpha @180 euro, but 256 point of resolution and based on pots in 2023 is totally disappointing.

On the other hand XPC is twice the price and looks like even better replacement is just around the corner with even higher resolution and with a lower price? :open_mouth: ?

And there are force feedback yokes showing up :slight_smile:

If the difference in precision and feel is not that much different and pots are known to last a long time in Alpha, I could get it now and either upgrade to Alpha Pro when it comes out or to some FFB Yoke if I feel like it.

At the same time I could just get Hall based and higher resolution XPC and be done with it for a while. The question is if the higher resolution and presumed increased durability coming from hall vs pots is worth double the price?

Looking forward to your thoughts guys :slight_smile:

Thanks

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Why would you think it is waste of money?

XPC has 4 times the resolution of Alpha (256 points vs 1024?) and XPC uses contactless and as such much more durable and with different feel hall sensors vs pots on Alpha.

Now of those two “features” are worth double the price is another question, to which I would love to find an answer for from somebody who used both, but at least purely on technical level there is a difference worth considering.

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I narrowed down rudder pedals to either MFG or Thrustmaster TPR (I think those are called). But I am pretty sure I will go with TPR as I have a bit of hip problem and TPR will be a safer choice with only forward and backwards movement without twisting like MFG require.

How big of a twisting rotational movement there is in MFG in your experience?

Thanks

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Been using the original Alpha for more than two years and never thought”gee, if I only had greater roll resolution…” feels just like my 500 hours of RL flying Cherokees and Cessna 140. Never gave it a second thought.

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Thanks. What yoke if any are you using and have you maybe had a chance to compare Alpha vs increased resolution XPC? Do you think increased resolution matters here?

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Great to hear that. How is the deadzone on your Alpha and did you ever had to clean or maintain the pots in any other way?

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No dead zone and no maintenance.

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Here’s some more info. ( btw, I would save up for a force feedback if you get hooked on flight simming)

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Am I right that original Alpha due to using pots or maybe for some other reasons has small but present detent on pitch axis?

One more time, thank you guys for continuing to update me with your views and experiences.

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You could also start out by using your racing wheel pedals for rudder control. They will lack differential braking, but they’ll feel familiar so it might even be less of a learning curve. If it feels like to much of a compromise, you can always upgrade later.

I have been flying fixed wing aircraft happily with my racing wheel pedals for years, but picked up helicopters recently and they might actually benefit from dedicated (non centering) rudder pedals.

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