I have over 40 hours dual instruction mostly on Cessna’s 172s. FS2020 is a close as I have ever been to my experiences in a 172. There are some things missing which will be hard if not impossible to implement to increase the realism. Obviously there are no smells, there is no feeling of being shaken with wind turbulence, there is no feeling of leaving the ground at the end of your takeoff roll. There is not the same confined feeling in the cockpit, there is no door wind noise and the needles on the instruments do not shake. Still it is an amazing experience to fly over familiar landmarks and to follow roads you have driven on when getting to the airport. FWIW


Have you tried stalling with power off yet? I can stall, keep the elevator full up and fly controlled all the way to the ground using ailerons, it is way to stable compared to the real thing. With power on there is some torque involved so that feels a little more realistic. Even full aileron deflection will not cause wingdip. In the air there is no rudder input required to fly coordinated as slipstream effect is not modeled, no adverse yaw effect. I’m not so sure its close to the real deal. From a visual perspective definitely, from a flight model perspective not so much…

If you have the opportunity to try it in VR, you’ll get more of the confined feeling of some of the cockpits.

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Both of these can be improved a bit using a force-feedback joystick, especially the sudden change when leaving the ground.

Unfortunately, mine ( which worked perfectly in FSX) no longer works in Windows 10/FS2020.


To be honest, I’m surprised these newer peripheral products that have came out, yet to make a force feedback yoke. The potential and immersion of such a product would be astronomical in comparison.

It could even be useful for implementation of stick shaker on airliners and some GA birds. Even do the correct imitation of when the AP is on, the yoke turns or foreshadows what the AP is doing.

Why? I’d pay extra for this.

The biggest drawback of jokes / joysticks, force feedback or not, is that they don’t have a variable nul-point. On any joystick (as far as I know) the in-trim position is always half-way travel. On a GA plane when trimming nose up or down in real life while keeping the elevator in the same position there will not be any change in pitch (ok, a small pitch trim maybe as the trim surface start to act like a mini-elevator) there will only be a change in stick force while at home with the same joystick position the aircraft does start to pitch and input is required to maintain level flight, when trimming less input is required until the joystick is eventually centered again. All this time, in the real world the flight controls would not have moved, only stick forces would have changed. If they could design a joystick or joke with force feedback and a variable “in-trim point” it would be worth its weight in gold :joy:.

P.s. not talking about variable incidence horizontal stabilizers obviously as there will definitely be a huge pitch change when trimming.


Seriously. I really wonder why this isn’t a thing for home simulation yet?

It would be a game changer if we would able to trim control forces as in real life instead of trimming joystick positions to center.

By the way, I know you are well aware of the theory behind it. I added some context for other people reading this post :sweat_smile:.

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Your stick should do. What is it? Have you tried XP Force? I am Logitech G940 here, but these and the MS FFB 2 are working well for most people here. Bottom line is that if it works in FSX it should work here as well.

I think when A2A Simulations come out with their Aerostar for MSFS you will get shaking needles, probably better flight dynamics, and much more.

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Force feedback yokes were definitely a thing in the early 2000s, but due to some patent issues (trolls) they never really came back to the lower budget market.

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It’s a Wingman Force Feedback 3D. The Windows 10 drivers themselves do not include the force feedback aspect. I read about it somewhere - apparently the design was non-standard somehow, and they decided it wasn’t worth the effort of trying to get it to fit the current Windows 10 joystick model.


That is a real pity, but it might be worth contacting Logitech to see if they have any older drivers that might work for you. Also, I think that there is a trial of xp force to see if that helps, but I am not sure. The author hangs out on here and is a good guy to deal with.

@ 6:40 - MSFS Spins in C172

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The only value of MSFS is to make you a better pilot. It can and will do this. Pilots are only as good as the decisions they make, and the amount of flight planning they put in before the flight.

I agree to your point that it will not be “real” in the sense of the loud noises, vibrations, distractions - but will not be able to reach that level of fidelity unless your in airline training in a Level D simulator. I think force feedback will be a great idea, and I am positive some peripheral dev has been working on it. The old frascas instrument trainers have this.

I’m not talking about spins, the wing drop in the video is not induced by the use of full ailerons, he is slamming full rudder in the spin direction upon stall (so roll induced by yaw, not really a wing drop). I’m talking about wing drops and the inability to stall a wing when using full ailerons at the stall. Give it a try, stall power off, keep the elevator full up and keep wings level with ailerons (everything you shouldn’t do in the real world), the aircraft keeps fully controllable the whole way down, no wing drops, not even when applying full ailerons. Its not realistic at all.

Just tried this out. I’m not sure if your realism settings are correct, but I had two power on stalls, and both the left wing dropped hard. C172 used.

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Yes exactly, during power on stalls there is some torque effect (way too strong by the way), you won’t be able to stall a wing by exceeding local angle of attack using ailerons.

You could try stalls in climbing or descending turns, you won’t be able to stall the correct wing. I tried to induce it by using a lot of rudder in one direction while using ailerons to maintain wings level. The correct wing won’t stall.

I think everything is more or less correct except the aileron effectiveness and inability to exceed local angle of attack.

My bad. Did power off stalls and held the elevator full after and did a falling leaf stall. In calm air, it’s fairly what you described. In windy conditions, more of an imbalance. It’s probably a more nuanced thing for stall enthusiasts. Overall, I’m very satisfied with the C172 and it’s ability for flight training in MSFS. You can get the audible sound and the technique for stall recovery. I guess that’s all you can ask for.

My only problem indeed is that the ailerons don’t seem to affect the local angle of attack, I did those kind of stalls on multiple aircraft (in real life), keep the yoke full aft and using RUDDER to maintain wings level. A little too much rudder or applied for too long, or a little bit of aileron deflection and on most planes you are gonna lose it, its a very tight balance. If you keep the yoke full aft in MSFS you can rock the wings using full aileron deflections and the aircraft stays 100% controllable without wing drops.

You are right, maybe it is nitpicking from my side. I don’t like the lack of propeller effects though, in the air there is no rudder input required to fly coordinated, that is a more serious problem. Same with the adverse yaw, there isn’t any. :sweat_smile: :joy: