[Released] Bluesky Hangar Grumman AA5

I just received this from Just Flight this morning in my email. Anyone know anything about this company? Any brave folks ready to try it?

I vividly remember a sales booth in the Burlington Mall (MA) when the first Grummans were released in the '70’s… I think right next to or near another booth for the New England Whalers hockey team, lol. I was 9 at the time, and I’ve always wanted a Grumman to own since then. I may still if the cash ever presents itself as available…

It comes in both 2020 and 2024 Native variants…

No idea on this one, but I do have the BRSimdesigns one …nice little flyer!

Yes, I have the BRSimdesigns one, too. I use it often. But, I love the Grumman enough to have both in my hangar if it’s good.

BRSim I think talked about working on a 2024 native version… Did he just change the name of his company? I’ve never heard of Bluesky Hangar.

There’s been a few reviews on YT and the general consensus is that it’s pretty good, there are a few minor bugs though, which will hopefully be fixed soon. Getting three variants for the price seems good value and I’ll be purchasing it later.

I plan on grabbing this because the visual model is more accurate than the BRSim version. I’m not sure when I’ll get a chance to actually fly it, but I’ll report here.

Eh, I bought it. The Tiger is one of my all time favorite aircraft, and, seems like it’s not my worst purchasing decision if I happen to not like it based on what ya’ll are saying :wink:

I’ll report back after I’ve flown it.

P.S. YouTube aircraft reviewers. Please use the aircraft for a few hours before you decide what you’re going to say about a plane. I have absolutely ZERO interest in software DLC unboxing videos where you’ve done zero research on either the subject aircraft or the software simulation, or both. Know something about the planes you review ahead of time, please. Or don’t. That’s just my opinion and what I’d watch. (And I definitely do not have the time to watch videos over an hour long, much less over 3 hours. Maybe someday after I’ve retired on a rainy day. Then again, nah. I have way better ways to waste my own time.).

Pretty reasonable at $27.99 for all three planes in both 2020 and native 2024 versions, and both glass and Garmin upgraded cockpits.

Be really curious to hear your and other people’s impressions. I’d probably just buy it now on a whim because I love everything Grumman, except I’m super-busy until tomorrow.

I’ve enjoyed the BRSimDesigns AA-5, but this one looks more accurate visually and has a lot wider range of options.

In VR I’m stuck on floor behind the front seats. Can’t get it to centre. Fine in 2D.

I am in 2024 beta 5.1. Anyone else getting this?

Real world owner of a 1972 Grumman Traveler here.

I’ve just bought this and have been flying only the Traveler around. So far its good, though I think it was a little rushed for release.

Modeling is excellent. Its really a stunner. Lots of options and Lots of little details that make this purchase worth it.

I like the configurations provided and how the manual is used to config the aircraft. Config is not saved though, so you need to set it up every flight. I also had an issue with clicking on the manual items. The hand appears but clicking does nothing. So I was not able to change anything on my other flights and was stuck in VFR. But besides that, when it was working, I got giddy for the Century 1 AP.

In the flight deck, again, very well modeled. Everything is clear, and legible. The odd thing was that the yoke moves 90degs, which is not accurate. The real airplane only moves 45 deg each side. Its a common misconceptions.

Rudder pedals are very well animated, and have a look, it has an interesting engineering design. Though, animation is swapped. Rudder pedals also turn the nosewheel, which is incorrect. The nosewheel is a castor wheel and is turned using differential braking. Fun fact; because of this, she can turn on a dime. This also makes it bit interesting on take-off - I tend to angle her a bit to the right of the center-line and use the left-turning tendencies as an advantage. Then by the time shes aligned with the runway, the rudder becomes effective.

Sounds are all from the default 172, though it requires a bit of balancing. No stall warning sound. I didnt see the stall warning tab modelled on the wing either.

As for the Flight model, its ok, feels like default 172. The real aircraft is sportier on the roll (Its known for its fighter-like feel). If I had to nit-pick; the numbers are off. (This is something that can be easily fixed in config).

For example; downwind 2100 RPM with no flaps, I would expect 80 knots - which I did. 1 notch she will settle at about 75 kts - which it did. 2 notches 1600 RPM, 70 kts with 500fpm decent - this was off. With the current build, 2 notches at 1600 RPM at 65 kts in the sim she drops like a rock (1000 fpm). And on final … well … all the 3rd notch does is change the angle of the nose - in the sim these flaps were like barn doors.

Another bug I found is that after pausing and then resuming the sim, all the instruments started flashing and all the panels bugged out. I don’t know if this was MSFS 2024 though.

Overall, I would say its a good buy, but it still needs some refinement and tuning.

Hello everyone, I’m the developer for the Grumman AA5 family. I’m really glad you guys are excited and have been enjoying flying in the aircraft so far! Over the next days I’ll be scouring the forum posts and videos so I can compile a list with all the bugs and adjustments to make, so I can hopefully deliver a patch as soon as possible. Any reviews, bug reports or nitpicks are very welcome! And thank you for your general positivety!

@BrainyRain84114 I will take a look at this, maybe it’s some botched camera configuration or some interior collider problem. Can you please provide a screenshot? I unfortunately don’t have any VR equipment to test with, but I will take a look. It could have to do with the interior colliders since the canopy has a different collider model than the rest of the interior - the intention with this is so that it rains/snows inside when the canopy is open, but maybe this is causing a bug. Again, a screenshot would be very helpful, if you could provide it.

@RoosTaZA Thank you so much for the detailed review! Any information from a real-world AA5 owner is invaluable to me, so thank you very much! I am really glad you enjoy the modelling and the textures. As far as the reversed rudder pedals and the 90º degree yoke, these will be fixed for the next patch. And as far as the stall warning tab, do you mean the little extensions on the trailing edge of the ailerons? You are right, I completely forgot about those - it should be an easy fix hopefully, but it might take some time since I have to update all of the models and textures. Still, I also added it to the list of things to fix.

As far as the castering nose wheel - this was a bit of a design decision in an effort to make it more accessible to people that don’t have a full sim rig and that might find it harder to use differential braking to steer. Honestly, this is a super easy fix since it’s just a matter of changing a single value in the flight_model.cfg files, but I am still a bit torn on how to proceed with this. I don’t think it’s possible to make this an option to change the behaviour in-sim via the POH, so I guess I’ll either need to keep it like it is and give players an optional flight_model.cfg file to change it to a caster nose wheel, or make it a caster by default and give players the option to change it to the default setting. Again, I’m still not sure how to proceed about this, so I’ll keep looking for people’s opinions.

I’ll also be fixing the flap configurations to make it handle more like the real world, so thank you for your details. But the flight dynamics have also been a point of contention, since most of my testers described the airplane as “twitchy”. The AA5’s are known for their sporty behaviour, but I feel like I haven’t yet achieved it. Would you say that the roll needs to be more sensitive (ie. less movement for greater roll) or have more authority (ie. same movement, but greater roll). This should be easy to fix in theory, but getting the “feeling” right might be a bit harder.

Each aircraft comes with a default panel variation every time you load in (VFR for the Traveler, IFR for the Cheetah and IFR-GPS for the Tiger) - again this was more of a design decision than anything else. I chose to do it this way to give people a bigger variation from the get-go without having to configure the aircraft first, but for most of the development cycle the configuration states were saved between each flight. I can easily make it this way again, it’s just a matter of deleting a couple of initial variables. This is another thing that I wasn’t 100% sure on how to proceed, and it was more of a design decision. But if more people feel like you do, I’ll definitely change it back. As far as not being able to change options, is the engine off and the parking brake engaged? This is the only way to change panels - but I’ll look at it again and see if it works as intended, maybe I introduced a bug somewhere along the line and it’s broken since I last tested it. But it should work.

Lastly, I haven’t experienced the flashing instruments during pausing at all. Did you use the active pause, or the debug “pause simulation” option? I’ll take a look at this, but it might be a MSFS problem, not sure. I used both the active pause and the pause simulation a ton of times during development and never ran across that bug, so I’m not entirely sure what might be causing it.

Once again, thank you so much for the detailed review!

Hi @BlueSky6514

I’m about to go fly it myself…

The stall warning tab is a small opening on the front of the wing with a “tongue” sticking out of it. When air gets underneath it (in a stall condition), it triggers a horn in the cockpit, and in some aircraft a light, too.

You test it during preflight by lifting it (with the battery turned on).

The little extensions (tabs) on the ailerons are typically a fixed trim tab you set up when you initially set up the wings by bending it, and sometimes check during annuals (if your mechanic knows what he’s doing). Not usually something a pilot owner would want to touch.

Yes, please turn state saving on. Especially equipment configuration at end of flight, and, as you’ll get tons of requests, lol, the Hobbs meter.

For the castoring nosewheel, you made the right choice making it steerable by default. Most people don’t get it, or will get annoyed by it. But, please do add an option to turn it on. I’ve seen some developers include the right lines in the config that you can instruct savvy users to activate. But, it would be wayyyyy better if it was an efb option. And give it a nice warning, lol. (I tried turning on the castoring tailwheel in the AH Mosquito… ouch!, lol, it’s going to take some work for me to get that to work for me)

Regarding “twitchy” flight models, man, I don’t envy people who use gamepads to control planes. But, really, I would expect it will take a few rounds of development to get the flight model really dialed in. With so many controllers on the market, making it work in one configuration can feel totally wrong with a different controller (not just gamepads :wink: )

I appreciate that you’ve posted this, so much so that it pushed me over the edge. I bought it even though I don’t really have time this weekend to fly much. Super happy with what I see so far, and I’m sure it’ll get fixed.

I think this is the right balance to have, but I’m sure it’s the most work for you.

Just took the Tiger N74867 IFR panel for a spin. Started at KASH, flew east towards Lowell where I got my degree, flew over my mom’s house, down to the Burlington Mall in homage to my original discovery of the plane (back before the second level was added, but after the west wing was added with the water bed store, lol), and then landed over at KBED.

Verrrrry stable flight model. I found the head position to be pretty low. I can fix that, though. The cabin heat knob declares it controls the navcom screens. Personally, the paint is a little too glossy for me (but I can fix that for me). Engine sounds are awfully quiet. But overall, very happy I bought it :smiley: Nice flight at sunset. Sorry, I didn’t think to take any screenshots, another day.

Yeah, the difference in canopy shape to the competitor’s was a little jarring. I assume it’s better here. I’ve never sat or flown in a Tiger. But as noted, it’s high on my list. There’s actually one I’ve got my eye on.

A sensible choice.

FWIW…

At one point, I modded the default SR22 to have a castering nosewheel. I know you know this, but for everyone else reading: it’s as simple as changing the steering angle of the nosewheel (in “contact_points”, within “flight_model.cfg”) to “180”. Although it was more fun and felt more realistic under some circumstances, MSFS’ flight model has a notoriously strong tendency to weathervane the aircraft while taxiing. This made it nearly impossible to taxi correctly in windy conditions (I mean, holding full travel rudder one direction, and still tapping the brake on that side to keep it straight), with some even more exciting results landing in a stiff crosswind. Eventually I abandoned it.

I’ve flown the castering nosewheel plenty in a Cirrus IRL, and while there is a scenario in very windy conditions where you might have to be pretty active in your control inputs…if you’re taxiing around in any kind of wind condition that’s appropriate to also fly in, you should be able to keep the airplane rolling straight without riding a brake.

I tried really hard to love that one, but yeah there were some big issues with the modelling and flight characteristics. The modelling thing that got me with “the competitor’s tiger” is that the vertical stab. is vastly undersized, more appropriate for an AA-1 or something.

BlueSky’s looks good. I’ll probably grab it next month, after my bizjet fever from the P300E and Sovereign dies down. Shame about the default sounds, though. It would be cool to get some exterior sounds faded in when you fly around with the canopy in the vent position, buuut I also must concede that it’s a big deal to make a custom wwise sound pack for a 4-cylinder piston single that just kinda sounds like all the other 4-cyl piston singles anyway.

@BlueSky6514 Hi, screenshot as requested. Happens in both 2024 and 2020 in VR . 2D is fine.

Bought it, looks great, I have 25 hrs on the real AA%. However, I have a major issue that nobody seems to have: I can only start it with the engine covers IN PLACE! Tried everything, incl. CTRL-E. JustFlight responded promptly (thanks!) but could not solve it and reported it to the developer who is reading this here for the 2nd time… Sorry for repeating the issue but I am so keen to fly it… It must be me or my setup? Many thanks, Ben

Hey @BlueSky6514,

Thanks for the response.

I hope I didn’t come accross too harsh, I have a lot of excitement and passion for this project of yours (hence the day-1 purchase). I would also highly recommend simmers to purchase this aircraft as I can see you have a lot of passion for this project too. You as a developer, need to make those (tough sometimes) decisions on whats best for your project, and I can totally respect that. I know I can adjust things to my own liking too with the MSFS configs.

As for the flight modeling, I wouldn’t know how to translate what I feel in RL to the sim. I almost fly her like a 172, with exception to the landings. Hence the 172 is a good start. Because of the low wing and that she is much sleeker, she struggles to slow down and floats for ages if your speed is not managed properly. But if you fly her by the numbers, she is super stable.

I guess maybe I didn’t take my setup into account, compared to users on controllers. I have a Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo with Virpil Rudder. The roll rate feel, could probably be a muscle memory issue vs sim issue. The Alpha (also due to 90 deg roll) feels sloppier than the real deal and it RL in flight its stiff and super sensitive. (Get your mind out of the gutter :face_with_hand_over_mouth: )

As someone who uses the sim to train procedures, I would appreciate it if the numbers were correct though.

Not sure if this will help, but this video actually has a shot of RPM and VS (sorry no AS). Its a 360 video, so set it to 4k. The video starts just after turning base and applying 2/3 flaps at 80 mph (68 kts). The approach is a little tricky as you need to dive a bit after the powerlines and the runway is a steep uphill gradient. (small plug: I’ve modelled this airfield on flightsim.to Eagles Creek Aviation Estate FAEAGLE - MSFS Add-on - Flightsim.to )

With regards to the Caster wheel, I totally get it, its a good compromise and its something that I can fix myself. I thought I’d give some additional details as to the quirks and as to how it can be used to an advantage. Granted MSFS ground handling physics is not the best.

The stall tab is a retangular tab on the end of the right wing (sorry I dont have a better shot): The Traveler’s is further out on the wing compared to Cheetah and Tiger

Here is a demonstration of a pre-flight of a tiger, cheetah and traveler. Have a look at the 12min and 28 sec mark:

I can see you have a lot of passion and I really hope that I add value to your project.

Thank you so much.

I had a simialr issue. I primed (3-5 pumps) the engine and it started up.

Thanks for the suggestion. Justflight also suggested this, but unfortunately it does not work for me.