Remember that question about AOA a few days ago..?

I’ve noticed this as well, also impossible to stall the inner wing in a descending turn, outer wing in a climbing turn and the local angle of attack does not get exceeded by use of ailerons. You can use full aileron input close to stall, you won’t exceed local angle of attack.

For anybody wanting to try out the accelerated stall in turn as in the video, formula to calculate stallspeed = 1g stallspeed x square root of (1/cos AOB) for a level turn.

Maybe we see some fixes in next update…

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Thank you.

Especially the part about base to final turn, and the sim letting us develop bad habits.

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I work on that base - final all the time. Trying to be able to fly all the different types of aircraft - in all types of weather - and getting the spacing right on the downwind to leave enough room for the base and final turns to get onto the centerline smoothly - with minimal corrections.
In a proper flight sim where variable aircraft weight, power, and wing loading / drag etc are all factors it’s probably the best regular challenge there is in a non combat flight sim. Something to work on in every single flight.
This is why I like carrier landings in DCS so much too. It’s all the same game when you boil it down.
Not just landing - but LANDING like a Chad - lol

This video should be PINNED on top of this forum.

The flight model choice should be labeled Legacy/Xbox.

The reality though is that the flight models demonstrated belong to default aircraft. 3rd party aircraft can have much higher fidelity. It is partly the base program but someone who is familiar with real world flight dynamics can program far better behaviors.

Speaking of stall indication and stalling different surfaces at different times, according to the MSFS SDK, the force vectors shown in the debug sim forces window are supposed to change color when a surface stalls. Have you ever seen it do that? I’ve tried a few airplanes and have never seen the force vectors change color, only relative size.

I have to admit that I haven’t explored the SDK and have no knowledge of the ‘debug sim’ and the indicator ‘force vector’ you refer to.
Have you only checked it against the default ASOBO aircrafts? or have you also looked at modded or 3rd party built models using the debug feature?

reason being that if only the default aircrafts are ‘wrong’ but the 3rd party addons are performing properly or closer to reality - then the base sim is ok and only the planes built by ASOBO lack realism.
This would be good news.
On the other hand - if none of the aircraft are close to real world aerodynamic modeling then the flaw could or most likely would lie with the base simulator - and therefore be dependent on MSFS ASOBO for a fix. That would not be good news

I have not seen that either, I have to say, I haven’t opened MSFS in a long time…

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is there any chance that you could post a video of this - or know someone who can?
I think a lot of us would like to see this and better yet, a comparison between lets say the default C172 and the Carenado C182 or any other two similar aircraft with one being default.

Yes , a key to success

Not sure what you are asking for. If you just want to see the force vectors acting on the airplane, anyone can do that. Just activate the developer mode in the MSFS Options menu. After starting your flight, select “new project” in the developer menu. Click okay. Then in the tools menu, select Aircraft Editor. In the debug window of the Aircraft Editor, select Sim Forces. Then go to external view and you can see the lift forces on the wing as well as other forces acting on the airplane.

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ok - perfect. Let’s just say that THAT is what I was asking for.
Can you show me in the MSFS2020 Manual that came with the sim where it describes that process?
lol
Being an ‘insider’ has its advantages after all I guess

I’ll try it out and maybe post a video at some point. Thank You

What MSFS2020 Manual? :thinking: It’s sort of in the SDK, but you have to piece it together. I basically learned it just like you, from having someone describe to me how to get to the Aircraft Editor for a current airplane. Then it was perusing the SDK combined with trial-and-error to examine the different tools available. None of this came from being an “insider!” :grinning:

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yeah that was some snark - ya got me.
I’m still trying to figure out the basics in this program, and looking around in the virtual world.
I have not even looked at the developer mode aside from the FPS meter and turned off that bad news right away.
Let’s just say it was on the 'list of things to do" from MY Zendesk

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I thank you again - for this information. I had no idea this tool was available right in the sim, let alone how to access it.

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This is what it looks like in developer mode:

I’ll need to read through that a couple of times before I can comment on it…
Thank you for the analysis

It wasn’t about the analysis really, but you can see what the force vectors and pitch moments look like in developer mode.

no I used the term loosely because I read that at 3:AM…
But there is obviously a problem that is observable by using the tool - a problem of aerodynamic modeling either in the coding of the models or in the sim - or both.
It appears that lift and downforce are not occurring where they should on some aircraft. Add to that this location changes with changes to airspeed and AOA - but if the center of lift is wrong then it becomes harder to trim for level flight (something we have all seen) and the aircraft COG is rendered useless.
That is what makes an aircraft unstable and unflyable.
The other problem I have noted is the incorrect yaw modeling. The ‘rubber band effect’ when rudder is applied. Gradual application of rudder results in very little yaw moment until about 40% deflection - then it seems to ‘grab’ and yank the tail. Releasing the rudder pressure from full deflection gradually has the same effect…very little reduction in yaw until it is about 60% released and then the tail ‘snaps’ toward neutral. Rudder is more like an ‘on/off’ switch than a procedural effect control surface

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