Request Microsoft/Asobo to revisit consumer rights on marketplace content

It would be fair for every developer to give at least a 7-day trial version to products… But when it expires, you decide whether you like the product or not…

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It’s not only about a trial period. Much more important is the maintenance across the SU’s.

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Or a complete other approach: a Rental system!

You can purchase an amount of ingame currency, lat’s call them FS_Dollars.
With these FS-Dollars you can “rent” planes, airports, activities.
In case a sim update breaks any of these the faulty product gets disabled and you get the FS-Dollars back.
These FS-Dollars could also be part of a gift for ending activities with a given goal.
Ending all Flight Tutorials with a rating of A gives 50 FS-$, e. g.

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Software rental the biggest scam in history, a lot of antivirus software and other companies try to enforce this with all ways possible.

I buy software and it is MINE forever - this is the only way to go :wink:
Because software rental is absolutely dangerous. Zero customer rights and 100% corporate rights, including REVOKING your right to use your own paid programs or games. Anytime. For no reasons. And you can do NOTHING when you sit somewhere outside the USA - because what will you do, fly to Washington for 1000$ and get a lawyer for some 35$ or 50$ program and start a million dollar lawsuit?
As soon as this atrocity would take over, including DRM chips in every mainboard so you don´t even own you own computer anymore, you would wish never even mentioning something like “software rental” :wink:

A demo version would be enough to test third party addons.

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Except you havent owned software including Windows for years and years and years. If you read all the garbage that they pack with the software you will find that you are only a granted a license to use that software, and that right can be revoked at anytime for any reason.

If you want to own software you pretty much have to run Linux, and even then alot of whats out there you still wont own, you’ll just have a license to use it.

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How would the developer get paid if the money is in “escrow” for the lifetime of the sim?

A rental system can’t work in this scenario. The only thing that does is what we’ve already got in place. Sure, the customer service on refunds needs reworking but that’s a minor detail when a rental service would require several months of work - to which who pays for that, the developer, Asobo, Microsoft.

The real problem we face is the Ten year “beta” we’re effectively in which there maybe something in the licensing that allows the breaking of third party purchased addons via the marketplace.

To further add, it is always the responsibility of the developer to issue fixes when updates to their parent product cause their addons to break, not the other way round. How quick they do this is a due diligence you have to uptake and not blindly buy a product.

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So what are the next steps here? How can we get this moving and flagged to Asobo?

SU10 is out and as people are finding, especially on Xbox, the items people have purchased no longer work.

We really need to take a stand here.

I think this is actually a Microsoft issue. They are the vendor, they take our money and exchange it for sim credits. They send a receipt for said credits.

And that gargantuan monolith casts a very dark shadow.

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Ah fair point. I think they all have a responsibility really.

Might as well leave this to stagnate. No one cares. Asobo, Microsoft not some of the third party devs.

Vote with your wallets Xbox users it’s the only way.

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100% AGREE … What amazes me, is how they can get away with this for so long, with all the consumer protection laws out there.

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The problem here, Ant, is that we are not dialoging with anyone here but ourselves.

I’ve been on this forum, very actively, for a year.

There is little to no two-way dialog with anyone from Microsoft and none from Asobo.

It is, beyond clear, that this space is just not for that purpose. In fact, I’m, honestly, surprised they allow us to speak as openly as we do here, because the lack of dialog with them really gives me the impression that this place is either simply for us to have a place to yell into an empty void and/or an echo chamber of like-minded thinkers.

We can’t even get an answer from them regarding this whole DX12 nVidia driver thing. Here they release a brand new Sim Update and then don’t even bother to hang around to answer solidly legitimate questions regarding a major change. What is that?!

I feel completely powerless, and, to use a term I loathe, “emasculated” here.

To quote myself from January:

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Thank you for this post - we will escalate it internally as this is great feedback on the Marketplace system as a whole.

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Difficulty with any purchase is that we are reliant on the developer keeping their product up to date through the various updates I don’t know if Asobo actively remove mods from the marketplace that don’t adhere to any new standards but I suspect not. Also…do developers even have to commit to updating or are they “sold as seen” compatibility today doesn’t guarantee it tomorrow. But that is same regardless of whether it’s a market place purchase or third party. The speed of updates is better from some developers than others and I’ve got a few products that have never sniffed an update. I agree better control is probably needed but imho anything sold in the marketplace should have a minimum term of support guaranteed. It is after all an in sim market. I now tend to stick to stuff from the bigger developers with an understanding they are more likely to keep products working. It’s an expensive lesson though :laughing:

Absolutely wouldn’t want to push out the smaller devs I think they are great for the eco system. I really like the idea of them getting support from microsobo for a placement fee although we’d probably have to accept a price increase as part of that. Didn’t realise they didn’t get support tbh. Definitely a complex beast trying to make this work given as you say the complexity of understand a million different set ups. Responsibility and where necessary, refunds for products that don’t deliver though needs to lie somewhere and I’m in total agreement that the credits system of the current system makes it difficult.

Edit: my reluctance to buy from a smaller developer is not the developers themselves but this very system

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I think a grace period is more than fair, and SHOULD be required for xbox content.

Something to the effect of 48 hours, and a final decision must be made. And probably 2-3 times it can be done over a given period, like every couple months to accommodate SU updates and other things that may have broken or fixed a given add-on. Something not convenient at all trying to usurp the system for some reason or another.

Also a rating system for xbox only would be nice, and really should be required, or you could call it deceptive.

It would probably take 1 day for a capable programmer to implement.

Not to mention you have be WELL CONNECTED in forums to even KNOW about zendesk or any recourse. Remember this is for a ‘retail’ consumer product/system you buy off the shelf at Walmart, and a game you can buy in the same manor. How would a ‘normal’ person buying this(say versus the newest EA Sports title) even know there’s forums for these issues at all? The market place is integrated into the retail software, it SHOULD work. THE PURCHASER MAY NOT EVEN OWN A HOME COMPUTER.

I of course read reviews and have had many things get both broken and fixed with updates and research, but look at it from the retail end. It should have a disclaimer PLEASE TEST THIS 3RD PARTY PURCHASE IMMEDIATELY FOR ANY PERFORMANCE/COMPARABILITY ISSUES, YOU HAVE 48 HOURS BEFORE THE CHANGE IS PERMANENT blah blah blah something like that…

Right now, it’s buy at your own risk/no warranty, with ZERO disclaimer from the software creator saying such, and has a deceptive ‘rating’ system.

My mom could buy this game/setup off the shelf and have access to the downloads that may ruin the entire setup with zero warning, THAT SHE PAID FOR. It’s not like anything on xbox is freeware or from places outside of Microsoft itself.

Don’t get me wrong I have over 100 3rd party ads, but have been a gaming nerd for 30+ years…

Personally, I think there should also be ANOTHER layer with a clear warning(particularly for parents) before even allowing marketplace access other than required updates/world updates).

IF THESE THINGS HAVE NOT PASSED EXTENSIVE DEVELOPER TESTING NOR ARE APPROVED 100% WORKING ALL THE TIME IN ANY COMBINATION, IT SHOULD SAY SUCH. That or hire a staff of thousands to deal with it properly for all the complaints and refunds. This is under the wing(pun) of MICROSOFT.

Try calling a company like Lego sometime and saying your set has a missing piece, you all but hear a drone dropping it off directly from Billund on your doorstep as you talk to CS who ALWAYS answers and are open 14 hours a day. Heck they give you VIP points as well for being inconvenienced having to call the best customer service department on planet Earth. Either do it that way or WARN your customer’s first. Which way is easier?

I highly doubt any EA updates or COD add ons on XBOX have ever broken the game. You’re here, so you know, but take away any idea that a forum exists for this and imagine if you just randomly bought a game you never researched first off the shelf at Target and tell me what you would do if you bought an upgrade pack IN GAME that CTD’d with no reason nor refund.

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This is worrying. I bought like 40 pieces on the MP and have a good couple of hundred free mods.

So naturally I didn’t check them all. Didn’t have any problems either, besides some cars driving over a runway like a highway.

But I did not expect that an ingame store of a large Microsoft product is in such a state.

Hope this gets addressed. I can’t find release dates for products, version history is a joke with most using “^”. No text reviews just stars. It is impossible to know what works.

Too bad I like the idea of supporting small devs…

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This really, really bothers me.

Why is properly formatted, accurate version notes not a mandatory requirement for submission approval prior to being placed on the Marketplace?

Then again, it doesn’t surprise me — even Asobo forgot to put release notes in the current release of the sim… and Microsoft approved it for release.

Sigh.

I was very good at my job when I was in QA. This sort of thing pains me. The sloppiness is so unprofessional and ugly.

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