You’ve got no BestBuy, Walmart, B&H, … nothing near you? Even so, according to my plan, you only have to wait for one day. The next day, scalpers are not interested anymore because those willing to pay $3000 will have gotten one already
Because they might be interested in building a reputation and brand loyalty. If the goal is to make as much money as possible, they would have set the price at $3000 and then gradually reduce it over time (essentially become scalpers themselves).
I thought so too, but it happens also in a very stable flight with a really stable and locked 30 fps MR, and when it’s locked at 30 and has 35% overhead it’s not going to jumpe to 22.5 and back. Still, if I look sideways - there are those scenery stutters every few seconds. Not exactly same amount of seconds, they do feel random - sometimes 3 seconds can pass between stutters, sometimes 15 seconds. If I just look ahead I may not notice them at all. But sightseeing and looking left they are very noticeable.
Well, it’s going to be another stuter thread, but I guess why not? It is a separate topic, so yes, I’ll do that…
so im generally cpu limited with my 12900k and 3090 - i think primarily because of LOD/3rd party airports and vatsim traffic. airborne FPS are generally pretty good (40-50 but on ground im usually 20-30).
given that i am cpu bound - will a 4090 bring about zero improvement in performance? i understand i can probably bump up settings and probably get better quality but does being CPU bound mean that your FPS are maxed out unless the CPU is improved?
why do you think you are cpu limited?
what does the developer mode fps counter tell you (limited by main thread or limited by gpu)?
do you use open xr toolkit? if so, using the advanced fps counter what numbers do you get for cpu and gpu?
task manager can be useful, take off or peek out the bottom of your headset and run it, select performance tab, what % utilization is your cpu and gpu hovering around?
We seem to have been following a parallel path the last few years from the early days of CptLucky’s 2070s guidelines. My upgrade path has been:
Whilst all the GPU upgrades came with FPS increases (which I then promptly got rid of by bumping up settings ), the biggest reduction in stuttering came with the 5900x->5800x3d. It really does feel like with MSFS ‘cache is king’!
That said, I don’t use MR. I didn’t like the shimmering that came with it and am not particularly sensitive to low FPS in VR. Plus, I moved to a Varjo Aero a few month back so MR is not an option.
I picked up a 4090 today (same Gigabyte Gaming OC as you) and have since learned that the 4090 does not play nice with the Aero so I may dust off the old G2 and run a few benchmarks. The only significant difference between our systems is the CPU so it will be interesting to see how the results compare.
Absolutely - don’t forget to share how it goes. As I mentioned, I am planning to upgrade when the next X3D CPU is out. Looks like January-February if we’re lucky. 5800X3D would be a downgrade for me in terms of work from 5900X’s 12 cores, as I use this PC as a main workstation. (ona separate boot/partition/Windows from MSFS). 7900X3D shoud be a good upgrade though. If you can call a whole new system an upgrade, as it’s a new AM5 socket, so new motherboard with a new DDR5 RAM.
My cpu core count has been going in the opposite direction to my cuda core count
Zen4 x3d cpus will possibly be my next upgrade too - I’ll see how the 4090 works out with the Aero once they’ve fixed the issues. With the 3090ti I am already getting consistent 40-50fps with the Aero bumped up to 37ppd and most settings on high/ultra (using dynamic foveated rendering helps). I really don’t need any more than that to be honest and could stop there and be happy but these incremental improvements are quite addictive so I’ll probably not stop until everything is maxed out at 39ppd and I’m still getting 50fps !
So I have dusted off the G2 and done a bit of benchmarking. Nothing scientific - just eyeballing the frametimes and indicated FPS during a couple of repeatable scenarios. I haven’t performed any testing with MR enabled yet since I tend not to use it.
My specs are Gigabyte Aorus x570 Master, AMD 5800X3D, 64GB of G.Skill CL16 3600MT/s RAM and an Asus ROG Strix water cooled 3090ti (replacing with a Gigabyte Gaming OC 4090 - only model in stock in NZ). Nothing overclocked.
My settings in MSFS are:
TAA 100% render scale
OpenXR 100% render scale
OpenXR Toolkit FFR using the quality/wide preset
All MSFS VR settings on High except:
Contact shadows and light shafts low
Ambient occlusion, raymarched reflections and bloom off
Anisotropic filtering 16x
Texture supersampling 4x4
Shadow maps 1024
Terrain shadows 256
Cubemap reflections 64
I ran 4 tests:
My standard test of the Baron G58 at La Guardia on the scattered cloud preset taking off and flying to Manhattan
The Girona landing challenge in the TBM
The Jackson landing challenge in the CJ4
Your test of the PMDG 737 taking off from JFK in overcast weather
First the 3090ti results:
40FPS on the runway dropping to 36FPS over NYC. Noticeable scenery micro-stuttering looking out to the left. Dropping TLOD to 100 gave me 43FPS on the runway and 40-43 over NYC
39-44FPS. Dropping TLOD to 100 made no real difference - maybe a more consistent 42-43FPS
Rock solid 46-47FPS all the way down. Didn’t try TLOD 100.
40FPS on the runway. Dropped as low as 29 flying low over Manhattan.
The 4090 results:
With TLOD200 I had 40FPS on the runway again (no improvement). This improved to 48FPS approaching Manhattan but then dropped to 30-35FPS flying low between the building of downtown Manhattan. Interestingly the OpenXRTK overlay was not indicating that I was CPU bound but, like you, when I opened the OpenXR overlay there was a 10ms discrepancty and I was clearly CPU bound. Looking at the Windows perf monitor, the 4090 was virtually idling at 4%!! The possiblity for upping the GPU intensive settings would appear to be huge The other big difference is that the micro-stuttering is completely gone. Dropping TLOD100 confirmed the CPU bottleneck with me now seeing 55FPS on the runway with it never dropping below 52FPS even when snaking between the downtown buildings. This is simply incredible - completely butter smooth, full resolution and zero stutters maintaining over 50FPS in one of the heaviest scenery areas in the game. I checked the perf monitor - GPU at 11%!!
Similar improvements on the Girona landing challenge. TLOD200 gave me 52-54FPS whilst TLOD100 was 61-62FPS
The Jackson landing challenge is the least demanding of these 4. I didn;t bother with the TLOD100 test but TLOD200 was giving me 62FPS already all the way down with the GPU at 15% (I have seen the GPU hit more than that just sitting at the MSFS menu!)
I didn’t see any improvement in FPS with the 737 at TLOD200 over the 3090ti results apart from maybe higher lows over downtown. I didn’t check frametimes but I suspect that I am CPU bound from the outset (given that the GPU was sitting at 21%). The big difference though was that without any micro-stutters it just felt far, far smoother.
I tried SU11. No huge improvement for me. Maybe a few extras FPS over the heavy scenery areas. I think I was seeing a fairly solid 41-42 over downtown NYC in the Baron (vs ~35). Other noticeable difference was that the GPU was now idling at 0% in the menu rather than 10-15% (in low power mode). Too many of the planes I fly don’t currently play nice with SU11 so went back to SU10. Unfortunately that process is a bit flawed and I am now half way through reinstalling
Bottom line is that even with a 5800X3D I get CPU bound pretty quickly with some settings but the scope for increasing the non-CPU intensive settings appears to be huge. Once the 7900X3D arrives I might finally reach my full resolution Aero, everything ultra, 50FPS nirvana
Well, what I see in your results that you are able to get “zero stutters” and the only think really different about your setup is the 5800X3D CPU. I fly with TLOD 100, and still have stutters over Manhattan. I do see a very significant improvement over 3080, but there’s more gap than from 3090ti of course. Most importantly, even 60fps is not enough for me without MR as I can’t stand the flicker. And with MR there’s a huge hill that 4090 got me over: stable 30fps MR in native G2 Resolution. It is a big deal. It was never possible for me to run flyable native resolution with any settings on 3080, period. I had to use FSR 80% and still it was very challenging. I do complain of stuttering now, but it’s still leaps and bounds better than before, as there were stutters and low FPS with MR failing resulting in a jerky warping mess. So 4090 is definitely worth it for me, but it’s very clear based on both mine and your results that a CPU upgrade is in order. For me 5800X3D would be a downgrade in productivity, so the only option is to wait for 7800X3D to be released, hopefully in a reasonable timeframe…
Since the cpu performance is so critical with the 4090 (and even us poor 3080ti folks) please can we all state the boost or overclock speed that you use - for example 5800x3d @ 5.2Ghz.
I hope Mr. Fantastic mbucchia is considering changing/adding to the OXRTK Hud the full cpu timing instead of the current appCPU which just has to do with rendering and doesn’t include the sim app compute time which shows as main thread time. Seems as always to be a critical balance
Ryzen 8 5900X overclocked through Curve Optimizer, boosting to 4.85GHz single core C23, 4.4GHz all-core C23. Doesn’t want to boost higher than that, desite liquid-cooled 360 AIO makes it never exceed 72C. I also tried overclocking with Hydra - same result. I think 4.85 is actually good for this CPU.