Saving flight plan within the World map does not work

[Pumsti4]

screen resolution : 5120 x 1440
what i do:

• Exporting a short flight plan from Little Nav map to .pln format. These plane has some user waypoints.
• Loading these flight (.pln) from MSFS World map I get in result, a correct loaded and usable flight plan. After it i save the same loaded flight plan from the MSFS World Map as .pln format with another name. After it, I load the new saved (.pln) again, and it is completely wrong. In addition, when i create a user waypoint within the MSFS World map and save it as .pln fomat, same problem. After reloading, it is completely wrong. Below you can see, that the user waypoints are not saved correct (bold)

The correct loaded flight plan exported from the little nav map.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<SimBase.Document Type=“AceXML” version=“1,0”>
AceXML Document
<FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
LOAV to LOAV
VFR
Direct
2200
LOAV
N47° 58’ 7.09",E16° 15’ 24.50",+000767.00
LOAV
N47° 57’ 52.00",E16° 15’ 34.00",+000767.00
LOAV, LOAV created by Little Navmap 2.8.11
N PARKING 10
Voeslau Airport
Voeslau Airport

11
282174


Airport
N47° 57’ 52.00",E16° 15’ 34.00",+000767.00

LOAV



Intersection
N47° 58’ 26.00",E16° 14’ 45.00",+001026.44

LO
AVA



Intersection
N47° 59’ 17.99",E16° 13’ 23.98",+001438.98

LO
AVK



Intersection
N47° 58’ 4.00",E16° 10’ 17.98",+002200.00

LO
AVT



Intersection
N47° 54’ 51.00",E16° 15’ 24.99",+002200.00

LO
AVS



Intersection
N47° 56’ 31.20",E16° 18’ 38.46",+001603.34

LO
AV807
LOAV



Airport
N47° 57’ 52.00",E16° 15’ 34.00",+000767.00

LOAV


</FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>

After saving the same loaded flight plan from the world map within MSFS

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<SimBase.Document Type=“AceXML” version=“1,0”>
AceXML Document
<FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
LOAV to LOAV
VFR
2200.000
LOAV
N47° 58’ 7.09",E16° 15’ 24.50",+000767.00
LOAV
N47° 57’ 52.00",E16° 15’ 34.00",+000767.00
LOAV, LOAV created by Little Navmap 2.8.11
N PARKING 10 PARKING NONE
Voeslau Airport
Voeslau Airport
AlternateName

11
282174


Airport
N47° 57’ 52.46",E16° 15’ 33.24",+000750.00
-1

LOAV



User
** N47° 58’ 26.00",E16° 14’ 45.00",+002000.00**
-1


User
N47° 59’ 17.99",E16° 13’ 23.98",+002200.00
-1


User
N47° 58’ 4.00",E16° 10’ 17.98",+002200.00
-1


User
N47° 54’ 51.00",E16° 15’ 24.99",+001800.00
-1


Intersection
N47° 56’ 31.21",E16° 18’ 38.45",+001250.00
-1

LO
AV807
LOAV



Airport
N47° 57’ 52.46",E16° 15’ 33.24",+000750.00
-1

LOAV


</FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>

[PacificSet90456]

Would it be possible to upload the two PLN files either here or send them to me? Stripping the XML from these files makes it difficult but not impossible to determine where the problem is. I understand what you are doing and what is happening. The actual PLN files would be very helpful. Thx!

[Pumsti4]

Hello,
The problem lies when creating a user waypoint from the word map in flight simulator, independent of Little Nav Map
I select the departure, a destination, for example LOAV-LOAU and add a custom waypoint between the route by clicking on the position and Add, which is also displayed correctly and loaded into the GPS. I can also load and fly the flight but when I save this flight plan as (.pln) it saves incorrectly and this is due to the user waypoints whose coordinates seem to be misspelled whereas I can save the flight as a .flt file, which is then loaded correctly again. I also tried it in Windows Mode, thinking it might have something to do with the ultra wide 5200 x 1400 resolution.

Attached are the two files
Thanks and LG
LOAV_AFTER_SAVING_LOAV-WORKIMG.PLN (3.0 KB)
LOAV_WORKING.pln (3.2 KB)

[PacificSet90456]

Thank you for posting these files! I will try to reproduce your problem. Meanwhile, I looked at the partial information you posted earlier to see if the problem would reoccur. The PLN file I created moved easily between LNM, MSFS, and even Navigraph.

Looking at the coordinates you provided, I figured out you are mapping the established circuit around the airport. I created a PLN file with all the circuit waypoints adding two waypoints and changing the one that seemed to be outside the circuit. Try it out!

vfr-loav-modified.PLN (3.3 KB)

FWIW, looking at PLN files I’ve created, I could never figure out how the info for cold & dark parking spaces were stored. I know they are plain text in the PLN file, but there had to be something else. Turns out the latitude/longitude of the departure and destination are stored at the top of the PLN. I saw that the departure latitude/longitude is actually where the parking space is, not where the airport is.

[SebastianJ7210]

Tested both flight plans and they load correctly:

Have you installed all updates? A few days ago someone reported some kind of similar issue and it looked like if the issue was not having all updates. Also, are you using Navigraph?

[Pumsti4]

Many thanks for your effort. Yes i have all updates installed I have installed a payware scenery from LOAV I have just tested it without the LOAV scenery. Same Problem. The flight plan created by little Nav Map, using only Navigation data from msfs loads fine, Also strange that if I save it as a .flt, I can load that flight with no problem.

[N6722C]

From what I see, creating flight plans in the World Map “May” have worked correctly at one time, but now it has multiple issues,

Adding additional waypoints on a IFR flight plan is flawed, and adding user waypoints is even more flawed, especially when you save those flight plans, and then try in a future world map session, to load them back in.

There are so many conflicting issues, that it would take pages to describe them all, and how they interact-- so maybe, a Video of what happens might be clearer – but even if such issues were demonstrated and agreed upon by a significant part of the community, the chances of Asobo fixing them are so remote, that it is questionable if it is worth the time & effort to even attempt to document them.

It seems clear that the World map was never fully completed before release, (ie there is a provision for airways, but that code was never completed).

So we seem to be currently at a stage, where the World Map, The VFR Map & a GPS, all display the same flight plan differently.

Hopefully Asobo will do a better and more consistent job in MSFS 2024.

[Pumsti4]

Thanks for your effort and help. I just have tried out to load your modified attachment. Below the result

[PacificSet90456]

@SebastianJ7210

Have you installed all updates? A few days ago someone reported some kind of similar issue and it looked like if the issue was not having all updates. Also, are you using Navigraph?

Yes, I have all the updates except for the Texas Cities and use LNM 2.8.11. Navigraph also is current.

I use SimBrief, LNM, SkyVector, and Navigraph flight planning tools. Each has their own unique features. I Navigraph to help me visually choose appropriate SID and STAR for each IFR flight. I use the Jeppeson charts all the time. The ability to create flight plans on my iPad is a huge benefit to me. I don’t use the Navigraph management app for MSFS because I had issues with it so I removed it and use Navigraph standalone.

I’ve looked at the two PLN files and found several differences which shouldn’t make a difference (to me), but I think they are what is causing the problem you have. Here is some background info to explain what I found:

1. PLN files created by different flight planners are not equivalent although this isn’t apparent. There is no “standard definition” of what is inside PLN files. Most 3rd party flight planners have an “Export to MSFS 2020” feature. This implies the exported files will work correctly in MSFS but as you discovered, they don’t work correctly all the time.

2. As far as I know, MSFS has never stated that PLN files created outside out of MSFS would work correctly when imported.

3. The various aircraft FMCs work differently when importing PLN files.

4. MSFS stores and displays flight plan information in three different functions: 1) VFR Map, 2) Navlog, 3) the FMC. All three display different information about the flight plan and should be in sync with each other but sometimes they get out-of-sync.

5. FLT files are different than PLN files. They are essentially a snapshot of the aircraft and its environment at a specific point in time. They contain flight plan information in three different places and three different formats.

The one specific difference in the two flight plans is that the LNM PLN file has most of the waypoints identified as “Intersection”. These waypoints all contained an ICAO Region (LO) and an ICAO Identifier. This should make it easy to obtain the GPS coordinates maintained by ICAO and probably in every AIRAC.

The MSFS-created PLN file waypoints are all identified as type “User” even though they have waypoint labels but no ICAO Region or Identifier.

It appears that LNM has a hybrid user waypoint definition where custom waypoints can be labeled as an “Intersection”. My guess is that MSFS doesn’t like these LNM hybrid custom waypoint definitions because MSFS uses only “User” type for custom waypoints.

It looks to me that your problem was that LNM defined custom waypoints type as “Intersection” and included ICAO information that MSFS could not process correctly.

You saw that there was a difference between the LNM and MSFS flight plans. If you want to continue to import LNM PLN files, I recommend they be checked for missing or incorrect information. It is possible to add custom waypoints in MSFS either by clicking on the World Map or entering GPS latitude/longitude in the search box. I always use the Decimal Degrees format (xx.xxxxxxxx, yy.yyyyyyyy) for easy entry.

I hope this has helped!

[SebastianJ7210]

@PacificSet90456

Yes, I have all the updates except for the Texas Cities and use LNM 2.8.11. Navigraph also is current.

My reply wasn’t for you but for OP :-D, we’re both (you and me) troubleshooting the OP’s issue. Nevertheless it is still good info.

[Pumsti4]

Many thanks for your input It is not a problem of different tools, I can reproduce the failer into the World map from MSFS without using any other tool I define LOAV as departure and LOAU as arrival, after it, i click a point near LOAV airport and add it as a user defined waypoint. I can use it loading it into GPS and fly, but if i save this created flight plane as .pln file it will not load correctly again ever

[PacificSet90456]

@N6722C

It seems clear that the World map was never fully completed before release, (ie there is a provision for airways, but that code was never completed).

I THINK there has been some improvements here. Granted, the World Map doesn’t show airways at all and navaids and waypoints are turned off by default. I often use Navigraph to create IFR flight plans and either import or manually enter waypoints into the World Map. Navigraph SOMETIMES uses airways and jetways in their flight plans. When MSFS imports the Navigraph-created file, it unrolls the airway or jetway to include all the waypoints on that airway or jetway. So it sort of works although I haven’t checked it since AAU2. Also, I’ve seen jetways used in the 787 and 747 FMC routing.

So we seem to be currently at a stage, where the World Map, The VFR Map & a GPS, all display the same flight plan differently.

Well, they should display differently because the have different purposes.

There have been incremental changes in the World Map and VFR that have not been well publicized except maybe a word or two buried in one of the release notes. The search function in the VFR is phenomenal, at least for VFR. The World Map display of precipitation, clouds, and winds is the best hidden feature of MSFS ever. Maybe someday the IFR overlay will work,

[Pumsti4]

I think it is not importend to implement many flight planing features into the application itself, because hard core simmers or real live pilot simmers do not use it. Better they are updating the GPS features, so we can use and train real live procedures, like holding and so on. So i think it would be better fewer features, but working features Loading and Saving a flight are basic Features for me, and they should work correctly, despite it, MSFS is the best Simulator ever in my opinion

[PacificSet90456]

@Pumsti4

I can reproduce the failer into the World map from MSFS without using any other tool I define LOAV as departure and LOAU as arrival, after it, i click a point near LOAV airport and add it as a user defined waypoint. I can use it loading it into GPS and fly, but if i save this created flight plane as .pln file it will not load correctly again ever

I’ve been able to create a flight plan in MSFS with one or more custom waypoints. Each flight plan reloads successfully from the World Map each time even when using different aircraft. I’m loading a saved flight plan directly, not using any FLT files.

I don’t think you said which aircraft you are using. I’ve been using stock aircraft with no add-ons. Unless there is a difference in aircraft, I don’t have any explanation why you are having a problem.

[N6722C]

@PacificSet90456

I don’t think you said which aircraft you are using. I’ve been using stock aircraft with no add-ons. Unless there is a difference in aircraft, I don’t have any explanation why you are having a problem.

As far as I can see, when you enter the world map, it pays no attention to what aircraft is selected – it’s functionality is the same no matter what aircraft is currently selected, or gets selected in the world map.

Here is one of many examples,

The new WT GNS530 does not support the Rnav 01 into KDCA – ie It does not support that particular type of Rnav approach, and hence it is cannot be selective from within the GPS database. ( Correct, real world modeling).

But when in the world map, (which does not take into account what aircraft is selected, or its navigational equipment) one can select that RNav approach, and if the plane is one with the GNS530, it gets loaded (Forced) into the GPS.

[NonstopOyster0]

FWIW, It sounds like you’re asking LNM and MSFS to create the same flight plan which and I don’t see why they should or would. Here’s what I do: create your flight plan in simbrief and generate the plan. Then open LNM and import the flight plan from simbrief. Make sure you’ve chosen the same aircraft as in simbrief. Next, in LNM modify the SIDS and STARS to your liking and pick you approach. Now select your departure position in LNM; save in LNM and export an MSFS plan to your computer and then export the plan to simbrief. Simbrief will need you to insert the plane and flight number etc and the generate the flight again.
When you open MSFS load the flight plan you saved and change nothing in the world map. If you pick your parking position there you’re, in effect, telling MSFS to make another flight plan and it may change what you’ve created. For the FBW airbus you can then load the aircraft in MSFS and flight plan from simbrief and fly.
Now you’ve made sure the flight plan in MSFS, simbrief, and LNM agree. I know this is a long procedure but works for me. I’m assuming LNM, simbrief, and MSFS are all on the same ARAC cycle.

[Pumsti4]

I found the cause. I didn’t know I had a Navigraph Database in the Community Folder. This appears to be causing the problem. Nevertheless, I don’t understand why user-defined waypoints, which are purely determined by their coordinates, are saved incorrectly as a result, but correctly saved as .flt file. Whether this is a bug or not, I don’t know. Does the same problem occur when you update Flight Simulator using Navigraph? How is this update accomplished by .bgl files in the community folder? Anyway, thanks for your great help.

[PacificSet90456]

Glad you found the problem!