Just saw this thread and I’m wondering if this hub is the same thing as XP scenery gateway? Will user edits here be reflected in the following sim update? Will it be possible to rectify wrong ICAOs and reassign them to the correct airports? That’s at least what I was expecting to bring the sim up to date.
thinking something. maybe the tool can be released maybe on Thursday
Why do you think Thursday?
Yes it gets called a scenery gateway but from my understanding based on a developer API live stream they did it just let’s us make simple airport fixes which later get integrated into official updates.
I don’t believe it lets us fix obvious scenery errors such as terrain spikes (I’ll be straight in there to fix a couple if it would!).
I don’t think it does a lot of what the original ask for a community scenery gateway was requesting and as a result I’m somewhat downbeat and expecting a lot of community disappointment when, if ever, they do release this.
I agree. At this stage, any comprehensive scenery improvements are likely be a MSFS 2024 thing, and even then it’s unclear how scenery will be fixed or updated better than what we’ve seen with 2020 unless they expand how World Hub works.
A scenery gateway system (named it World Hub or whatsoever) is not intended to perform “comprehensive scenery improvements” in terms of correcting terrain spikes or similar. Its intention is to correct and/or add airport stuff, mainly runways, taxiways, aprons, parkings, taxiway signs etc. Perhaps add and/or update standard library stuff (buildings, hangars etc).
Other thing is… proposing a scenery gateway system to be functional alongside WU14, and then present – ehm – nothing is simply not fair play, just my personal opinion. They at least could have said a few words what is still missing before the release.
I never said it was intended to do so either, but obviously it is a missed opportunity to restrict an editing tool to just airports (even if the tool only used stock assets either way). This is especially so because it’s very clear that Asobo and MS do not have the capacity to keep up with fixes or updates to a living world and separate mods are at best a bandaid fix in the long-run.
Strongly agree that a) Jorg should give us an update (not just quietly forget it), and b) it should cover more than just placements in airports with stock assets.
Saying nothing is just as powerful if not more in some situations as saying something. In this instance it says quite a bit. Since being pushed back again in June it has been listed as set for release with WU14 which has come and gone and still nothing about it. Plenty of talk and support for the new scenery addon as well as the new local legends aircraft but this has been completely disregarded and forgotten about even though it was supposed to have been an included asset.
At what point do we as the community continue to take them for their word and continue to allow things to continually get pushed back over and over and be OK with it? Imagine if you booked a flight weeks in advanced and then as your fight got closer the airline kept pushing your flight back further and further and never bothered to tell you why. Just expected you to keep accepting the delays and bank on their promise that you’ll eventually get to go on your flight.
Most people in that situation would buy another ticket on another airline and would never fly them again. Unfortunately we’re stuck with what we have so that isn’t really an option unless we want to “downgrade” and go back to using other versions of FS, which of course we’re free to do, but on the other hand, the amount of damage they’re doing to their own reputation and image is astounding in the process. Why would anyone believe anything they say anymore? If it’s scenery or aircraft they seem to be quite on point with making those things happen. Anything else that doesn’t fall into that category it sounds like they could give a rip.
I don’t know which direction I want to go anymore. Do I hold on to the idea that just MAYBE they could try being a respectable company and treat their customers with respect and have proper communication. Or do I accept that it’s just not going to happen and enjoy it for what it is but choose to never give them another $$. Jorg says he reads the forums, so I hope he reads this. No doubt this will probably get flagged and hidden anyways but it was worth it.
In one hand you have a contractual obligation (along with several regulations) and probably provable damages. In the other…
I think it’s just a massively complicated task, even with the limited functionality it looks like we “might” get, so the delay is due to it not being ready to roll out. Yeah communication could be better but I don’t think anything sinister is going on. Maybe they are trying to actually release something that doesn’t have a gazillion bugs?
I’d like to see the world hub sooner rather than later, but it’s far from Armageddon if it’s delayed again.
“The (constant) reports of (MSFS’s) death are greatly exaggerated.”
It’s not at all. Lee Swordy had an AFCAD program that allowed editing of airports since 2002. That came out for 2004 and evolved past FSX to become ADE (Airport Design Editor) by Scruffy Duck which has been used across FS2004/FSX and even for XP/P3D (I assume). All we’re hoping and asking for is to simply edit gates, assign airlines, edit comm frequencies, and define how runways are used. It’s not difficult at all. The way in which they’re wanting to accomplish this ability (assuming these abilities will even be included) is what’s such a huge ??/headache.
I’m not suggesting anything sinister is going on. I know they and the development team mean well and want the same results/features that we do. The issue isn’t about whether they’re stealing $$ or purposefully misleading people. It’s about consistently not delivering on things they talk about having been planned and even in development and then staying silent about it with no information as to why things are being majorly delayed or even “forgotten” about.
I admire your optimism. But when you’ve been in the game for 20+ years and with things that have already been accomplished back then when things were more simplistic and “difficult” to figure out, this type of behavior is majorly massively confusing.
What program/software doesn’t have bugs? But even then with stuff they’ve spent time on and released before has always had issues. Bugs come with the territory. Moreso with MSFS than any other game out there for whatever reason. I can accept bugs. As a consumer and paying customer what I can’t accept is being left in the dark about things especially when out of all the things they keep putting out are of little to no interest to me. I have the aircraft I fly, the scenery I fly with/in, and the only thing left for me to enjoy the sim the same way that I have been for 2 decades is to simply improve the weather and allow airports to be better optimized for the sake of bettering the already bad AI behavior.
If they hadn’t decided to lock all their files and make free editing virtually impossible the way this sim could look would be absolutely stunning. The community knows what it wants and we have a lot of very talented people. All of this work could be seen pre MSFS 2020.
I meant the collaboration, sharing, validation process and protection against overwriting each others changes… stuff associated with the gateway, not the tools themselves. And to make a user friendly idiot-ish-proof user interface for it all (and the tools as well) is the “new” thing they have to do?
But yes I agree with you. I also been simming for 30+ years (actually more than that - time flies!) but never this deeply into it as 2020 sucked me
Last I heard was that the web side of the project needs to be (of course) hosted by Microsoft and with that comes a list of accessibility and language support. Microsoft takes that stuff quite seriously. This could mean that the original web design and feature set of the World Hub needed some tweaking.
It might also just be the case that the Hub is getting ‘verified’ as part of the hand-over to MS hosting and that it is hard to exactly say when it will be ready, as it isn’t in their (Asobo’s) hands to decide.
Often it’s the case where some other group has responsibility to move your project along but it’s hard to predict set dates because you don’t know them. They made a best guess with ‘As part of WU14’ and it didn’t pan out so far.
Correct. If they had taken what worked from FS2004/FSX it would have been a near flawless release and would have at least allowed the community to use already developed programs/fixes to take care of the issues that have become a staple of the sim and haven’t been addressed or fixed in months/years. History teaches a lot of lessons. They chose to build from the ground up and trailblaze new territory and methods. That’s fine but all the while we the end users have had to deal with the rough road while they figure it all out. Some of these fixes shouldn’t be hard to do. But as we’ve seen. Other “areas” have taken far more precedence. And if they just can’t do it or don’t plan to do it then they should at least allow the community to figure it out for them. Which the community has already been doing. We’ve fixed the landing issues which is still broken. We’ve been working on improving the ATC system which was “fine” but they moved it to an Azure solution which doesn’t work. And they’ve bonked the weather to make it more “performance friendly” and for others who will not be named. So we’ve had to rely on other developers to try to bring a different type of immersion there which have proved to have great results.
So, all in all, with regards to this thread/topic - they aren’t redefining the wheel here. Creating airports/editing them has been done for over 20 years. A tool to tie into their system shouldn’t take half a year and multiple delays to get figured out.
Making a best guess isn’t saying it’s set for release when it’s already been delayed. Either it was good to go or it wasn’t. Saying WU14 release on their roadmap tells everyone it’s ready to go. They even had TBA listed there but they put 7/25 the same with the local legend so that made everyone think it was a pretty definitive date. So, if after 7/25 it’s not there then we want to know what’s up or why it didn’t come out. That’s not a hard ask.
I think what they should do is just not announce planned dates for anything. Just drop stuff out as they work through it. Makes people happy to get new content but also doesn’t hold them to meeting deadlines which they have such a hard time doing. Surprise us throughout the year as stuff gets developed. Delaying dates and missing deadlines is what is causing all of this hullabaloo.
Yeah, they probably shouldn’t have given a goal / release times, but sometimes it is just so tempting.
Here was the last Jorg quote on it being in potential ‘Compliance Purgatory’ from May 2023:
Jorg - It’s “compliance”! That’s right! In order to have a website where you login with your Xbox login, it needs to be compliant with a whole bunch of rules. And what we have is ready to go, except [for] the rules. So we are currently – the team is currently working through it. I predict it’ll take a few weeks. It bums us out. We thought we had this baked, and it would ship in April. And then we got the rules committee [who] came in, and we need to do some stuff before we can roll this out. But at least it’s working. It’s coming.
Correct. May 29th was the initial pushback. That’s fine because they explained everything. Then it was supposed to be June 21st which never happened - no explanation. Then yesterday with 7/25 set as release which hasn’t happened - no explanation.
But you get that it might be some outside group they are hanging on, so it leaves options of:
‘We don’t know what is going on, that’s the news’ - no-one likes saying this, especially when a better answer might be waiting in the inbox tomorrow AM.
‘It will be ready either tomorrow or just before the heat death of the universe, somewhere in between those two dates’ - that gets people madder.
‘This other group we work with is at fault, you should email firstname.lastname@example.org and complain as it’s not our fault!!1!’ - that sucks, especially at the Christmas party with awkward stares.
I get that you’d prefer (1) but I was just throwing around reasons why for this one in particular it might be harder to give good news.
I don’t disagree with your premise that communication is better, just chewing the cud on the possible whys for fun.