SimUpdate5: Dare I say this to Simmers...? Try locking your FPS

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I’m pulling the original post. My testings yesterday had proven to be quite sufficient. However flying today for a longer period of time in the heavier PMDG DC-6 I do experience more of the issues reported by others. For me, the pop comes only sometimes and in a fraction of a second but indeed this is less than experienced yesterday with a default aircraft at lower attitudes.

Locking FPS might still be part of the solution with regards to intensity - but not all of the solution needed.

I have just activated the rolling cache to see if that might do anything to scenery rendering but aren’t noticing much there either.

Regardless FPS-discussions in general, it’s not the holy grail I hoped helping the community with. Therefor I’m pulling the orginal topic as Asobo needs the proper information to solve these issues.

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I agree with you about the 30fps thing. Might also be an idea to scale back from ridiculous, unreasonable resolutions, too.

As long as I feed the monkeys working the steam pumps in my little Dell XPS (2019 - i7/16GB Ram/GTX1080), it manages a near-perfect ‘High End’ performance at 1920x1080@30fps.

This is why I’m bemused at the trials and tribulations of people running rigs many times more powerful than mine. Half those people can’t even get MSFS 2020 to start. I’ve had 4 CTD’s with SU5. Apart from that it’s running better than ever.

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I am chasing 60FPS because my monitor is not freesync, so for a smooth experience, I actually have to hit 60FPS to match the 60Hz of the monitor, otherwise the monitor itself will create “stutters” or tearing.

Maybe thats the issue for others as well

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I’ve had to fiddle with that at first too. My monitor FreeSync is off but Response Time is put on fastest and the option ‘gaming mode’ on, which tries to mimic a 4K quality output I guess. (My monitor being not as powerful as my PC as I decided to first see what I got before passing €500 on that)

I believe FreeSync is mostly there for AMD drivers and Nvidia users can do without, but I guess some IT-guy is going to correct me on this somewhere along this thread making me sound and feel very mortal. :smirk:

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As 60 is a multiple of 30, 30 frames is a solid match for a 60Hz monitor.

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But its not. It still creates lag/tearing. There is a noticeable difference when I lock FPS to 30 vs 60, where 60 is clearly the smoother experience

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Well no argument there. If 60 locked works for you than that’s it.

I think that locking it somewhere, anywhere, is part of the trick here. As it relates to pre-rendering and CPU’s and GPU’s performing in sync. Just letting it all lose creates a lot of processor waves messing up system stability I suppose.

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But, it is. From a technical standpoint. But what do I know? I only spent years in a career where understanding the technical aspects of digital display was critical to actually doing my job properly. :woman_shrugging:

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Nonetheless, I search for others facing the same issue, and I am not alone with this effect. So maybe it comes down to what the monitor itself can manage? Your theory is sound, however my experience does not match :slight_smile:

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Overall, I just always preferred looking outside instead of at my frame rate counter. I know many don’t, I don’t know why, but until they can do again they might copy what I do and see if that works.

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That’s an unfair comparison. You just watch movies – there’s no input, and therefore no input lag, which is a big part of why a high framerate feels smooth. There’s also the natural motion blur you get from shooting with low shutter speeds, which is not present in games.

And yes, if I’ve been playing high-fps games (say a shooter at 165 fps), movies do look choppy. And panning shots always look a bit choppy to me – the same kind that require a fair bit more than 30 fps in games as well.
Keep in mind this also depends on what you’re used to and your vision. Some people think a 60 Hz CRT looked great, while they gave me headaches in 10 minutes or so.

87 vs 71 fps as you mention isn’t noticeable in level flight, especially not at high altitude, but might be noticeable during acrobatics or camera motion. The real issue though is when you end up with 110 fps in some circumstances and 40 in others.

FPS comparison test

https://testufo.com/framerates-versus#photo=toronto-map.png&pps=960&framepacingerror=0.1&direction=rtl&framerate=30&compare=2&showfps=1

Check that out and see if you really can’t see the difference. It’s a massive difference for me (30 vs 165 fps). I can read the text on the smoother map, whereas I can barely even spot a single word on the 30 fps one.

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And yet, this is the focus of feedback asked and discussed in videoes :wink:
That being said, you are correct some are facing real issues with even running the game after the update.

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I think there are defenetly issues - but people tend to make way too much drama over it. If you follow the Forum after every release there’s always lot’s of posts about “Sim being neglected and is now totally ruined by the update” but those issues always start to improve, sometimes slower than most people (including myself) want it to - but still. On the other hand criticism is a good thing because otherwise Asobo might get too lazy on promisses and the bug fixes :wink:

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Well I know natural science isn’t really out on it yet but the limit that the human eye can see with regards to FPS would be around 60 and potentially a little higher. Chasing 165 doesn’t really serve a purpose anymore on the receiving end of things, however I do understand your input-side of argument in comparison between movies and games.

Regardless, for me the 30 is rock solid. Coming over from FSX on my old computer, struggling to keep it around 24 (but close to ground usually more 18’ish) this is a leap forward for my experience.

I think the 30 or 60 or whatever doesn’t really matter as it’s subject to so many variables in terms of user experience and system processing but locking it somewhere, anywhere, might just do the trick with regards to current stutters and pop-ins. FS20 is just too heavy to be completely run loose. That could explain a guy here with a 17K PC (or so he states) getting such bad output. Something is off there, and its not on the side of Asobo as I don’t experience his problems using the exact same copy of the program.

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Hello there, non-FPS chaser here, too (refer to my other Bora Bora post here), BUT: your comparison with movies produced for the silver screen versus computer games only brings you that far!

The flaw in your argument: movies are recorded with analogue cameras. Even when captured with digital cameras there is still an “analogue part (process)” in it, specifically the sensor which captures “analog data” (well, “light waves”) - which is then later converted to digital data.

What I am getting at is the exposure time which - for the mentioned 24 FPS cinema movies - is up to 1/24 second. A loooong exposure time.

And what does such a long exposure time naturally produce? That’s absolutely the correct answer: “motion blur”!

And it is exactly this “natural motion blur” in movies that makes our brain believe that we are looking at an absolutely smooth scene - except sometimes our brain cannot be fooled! And that is actually exactly in scenes with “fast panning cameras”, or in other words: “Our brain actually does detect that we are only looking at 24 FPS”. But since most of the scenes are “static” (the camera is on a fixed tripod, or only slowly moving forward or backward etc.) we do not notice.

(And in some action movies the “scene cut frequency” is so ridiculously high that our brain cannot cope with this “information overflow”, and being further “dumbed down” with loud explosions, screaming and flashes… so we do not detect the “stutter” ;))

Computer games on the other hand create a crisp and sharp image, which is - without mercy - displayed in high-quality monitors right in front of you, showing with at least 60 Hz refresh (not FPS) rates (or sometimes 120 or even 240 Hz). So every pixel that does not move smoothly is registered by our brain as “stutter”.

Of course there are techniques in computer graphics as well (specifically for movie effects, of course) which try to “smoothen” the movements. In fact, that’s what the “Motion Blur” option in FS 2020 is doing :wink:

But again, comparing “video computer graphics” with “cinematic, slow moving sequences” doesn’t do justice to the demands we have for “computer games”.

UPDATE: What @Aeluwas said :wink:

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I too have a i7 Dell XPS 16GB RAM. GPU is a RTX2060 with 6GB VRAM.
I have everything capped & v-synced at the monitor’s refresh rate of 75Hz.
Resolution on my 32inch monitor is 1440p.
I’m using the same SSD for everything – ie the Windows 10 operating system; the OS virtual memory/swapfile; and FS2020 itself.
My internet connection to the PC is via Cat6 Ethernet cable; my download speed is around 700Mbs verified;
I can now put most FS2020 settings at high or ultra and full Bing/photogrammetry etc. and it’s all mostly smooth & stutter free. This aspect is much better then before.
Main CPU thread/core is no longer maxed-out all the time. All the CPU cores are much more evenly balanced, and my GPU is being properly utilized. This I can say is vastly improved.

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Sorry, but that’s a techical misconception you have here: you do not need to reach 60 FPS (or equal to your monitor’s refresh rate, which, yes, for most of our monitors is 60 Hz) in order to get a “smooth experience”. Specifically the “screen tearing” you’ve mentioned is caused by something else entirely.

“Tearing” happens when the “drawing” into the “framebuffer” is not in sync with the refresh rate, namely if the application starts drawing into the framebuffer while the framebuffer is still being refreshed “onto the screen”! That’s when you see those “tearing effects”.

That is also known as “VSYNC”, or in other words: “the application waits until the vertical scan line is done”.

But again, that does not mean that you have to “keep up” with the refresh rate! You can draw your animation with just 1 FPS - yes - and still have absolutely no “tearing” (but yes, a “stuttery slide-show” for sure ;)) - for as long as you synchronise with the vertical scanline, and do not draw into the framebuffer while the screen is being refreshed, or put differently: while the vertical scan line is “in the middle” of the framebuffer.

UPDATE: Whoopsie! I just realised that you wrote “because my monitor is not freesync” - so just take my above statements as an “addendum” to what you just said. Sorry for my “text tearing” that I had during “writing into the text buffer” :wink:

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I remember back in FSX (and earlier) days that eking out 12fps was the best! I spent many an hour on a dial up connection to FS forums reading increasingly mad things to get faster FPS.

What we have now is amazing! I don’t even look at my framerate, I just enjoy it :slight_smile:

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I’ve updated/edited the original post to include some other experiences. Let’s just try to give simmers that are struggling now a current solution to their problem. So share good experiences and practices and see if they work for them too. I’ll edit more of it as the brainstorming continues.

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Discussion about what framrate is desireable is a neverending story (not only in MSFS but in every game/sim), so i think it does not make much sense to discuss about it (it’s more of a personal preference, and of course a question of HW power).

But this point is interesting:

Is that really the case? I was under the impression, that the “pop-ins” are there pretty much independent of system power and settings. With pop-ins, I don’t necessarily mean objects appearing out of nowhere but slightly changing ground structure (trees change/are added, object details change). Can you have a look again while flying over a PG-area at moderate altitude and then panning the camera around.

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