Watching tonights stream I was disappointed with the reference to Thunderstorm Updrafts;
“we currently held back some of the effects…” exact words on the thunderstorm updrafts
“we limited this because no one would understand it…” exact words
they will “take out the limits” at some point in the future
Now there may be a bit of lost translation from French to English, but watching the stream back again I find it a bit sad to see that a Simulation is holding back valuable physics just because “no one” would understand it, whether or not this relates to other areas of the Simulation i don’t know but I would bloody hope not!
I want a Simulation to to Simulate the Real thing, not dumb it down for the masses of Xbox Controllers, sorry but this is disappointing and whilst it’s good to know you will put these Realistic Physics attributes into the Sim eventually I wish you had done this from the very beginning.
There’s plenty of Dumbing Down Options already for users - don’t dumb down the Real part of it…
Instead of dumbing it down and then shoving it down everyone’s throat, they could easily give us options so that those who wanna dumb it down could do so simply by disabling the relevant portions of the flight model, and those who want the realistic features of the flight model could leave them enabled.
Agree, so please give us as much of realism as you can. Could be a new set of settings in realism menu named for example “hardcore” that allow us feel these extreme unforgiving effects…
Which is exactly what they/we have already, so to make this choice is quite baffling and as I said disappointing, does make you wonder what else is “dumbed” down eh!?
I concur, and similarly, they are transforming the joystick input value, which is a dynamic limiter to the input command because IRL you couldn’t move as much. It makes any aircraft flying like an Airbus: you input a commanded rate and the computer adjusts the control surfaces… I’m not sure about this approach for a Cessna but I’m quite open to the idea.
However since they are doing this because there is no force naturally limiting pilot input on the joystick, why not adding support for basic Force Feedback for those of us having a force feedback joystick?
In its simplest form is mostly opening a FF handle and setting up a couple dozen parameters, let alone FF handling is already in the legacy FS code base and was working very nicely as-is.
This is not what they meant. No one said the sim was dumbed down for gamers (and that’s frankly really flamebaitish way to put it, which is never good). Quite simply, resources are limited. They cannot simulate every little variable of the real world, because that’s not possible, so they stuck to the most relevant parts.
Whether it’s dumbed down for gamers is actually neither here nor there, it’s dumbed down regardless in this situation and for all we know others as well. That doesn’t strike you as worrying?
Like I said I want a Simulation to Simulate the Real world as closely as it possibly can within the limits of our PC machines, in this case they are choosing to hold back some fundamental physics attributes because - and I quote again - “…no one would understand it…”, that in itself is a bit insulting on the intelligence of those of us who would understand it, don’t you agree?
No. It does not. There is NO simulation on the market (or anywhere, including Airbus’ flight school or the other sims costing several million dollars) that simulate EVERY physical variable from the real world.
It’s literally impossible for the current and likely future (for a long while) hardware.
The dev simply explained why they have to simulate the most relevant effects but they can’t simulate everything, which is simply a factual issue with every software attempting to simulate reality.
You can disagree as much as you want. Your disagreement won’t magically create hardware and software able to simulate every single variable of reality, which simply do not exist, for reasons that should be obvious.
Yes. It was and it is, because contrary to popular belief, commercial computer flight simulator ARE games.
I know some get stung in their pride when they’re told they’re playing a game when they play pretend pilots, but we all are.
It’s also a simulator under every aspect of the definition.
I believe you are right, but there is still a great difference mathematically between integration and decimation.
In other words, if you’re simplifying a bunch of likewise related values in “integrating” them all under a single simpler representation, you might still get a globally adequate outcome. However if you’re altering values because “it doesn’t fell right”, then you’re decimating and end up with globally inadequate outcome.
PS: I’m not saying this is what they are doing, I’m trying to express both point of views in a different way because in the end I believe both of you are agreeing on the vary basic notion that it can’t simulate any single physical property going on.
That’s completely different to choosing not to simulate something which is exactly what Asobo have done here, I agree not everything can be simulated on our home PCs, but when a dev states - as they have done today - that they are currently holding back some of the effects then it is, to me, disappointing. I think you need to watch the Stream again and take note of what they said about this exact area, seems to me you’ve not watched it.
Of course, they’re “choosing” not to simulate something.
Current hardware and software provide only a finite amount of resources and the ability to simulate only a certain complexity. That’s a hard, physical limitation.
ALL developers of every game and simulator that includes any realistic behavior need to choose what to simulate within those limitations and what can be left behind. They certainly don’t do it at random.
A software simulator that simulates everything does not exist.
I’ve watched the entire stream and I have the recording right in front of me, mind you.
Again you’re not getting it, read my quotes in the first post, they were clearly stated the reasons why they’ve “dumbed” it down and it has nothing to do with hardware limitations…
Just for you here it is again:
"we currently held back some of the effects…” exact words on the thunderstorm updrafts
“we limited this because no one would understand it…” exact words
Nothing to do with hardware or software limitations, just the apparent limitations of the minds of its users… which another user elsewhere described as “insulting”
I don’t need to read your partial quotes. I have the developer talking right in front of me right now.
He’s simply explaining why these effects have been picked not to be simulated as opposed to others.
Again, a software simulator that simulates everything does not exist and likely never will because reality is by definition infinitely complex. All developers need to pick and choose the effects they can simulate and those that don’t fit in their hardware and software resource budget.
In this case, they decided to put the effects mentioned into the basket of those that aren’t simulated because the majority of users would not understand them, but this is done simply because they cannot simulate everything.
This doesn’t mean they’re dumbing down the sim and they’re not simulating all that is possible to simulate within the resources they have.