So what's really going on with this simulator and the persistent requirement to be connected online - servers really need improvement, or the sim needs to change

Personal Comments

This might help clear the air somewhat:

Very useful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da_7LGxWKMM

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/blog/microsoft-flight-simulator-the-future-of-game-development/

Also - this Pinned Post from Senior Community Manager @Jummivana

While not a complete picture, it certainly gives insight into the effort, infrastructure and design of how to deliver MSFS to your desktop.

Note - that video with Martial? Very helpful to this conversation - he starts detailing the infrastructure and technology behind the sim design around 3:20 in. Martial mentions “Lionel” in passing, that’s Lionel Fuentes - the developer who presented the Terrain System deck in Jayne’s Pinned Post.

Specifically pertinent to this conversation - start when the the above chart appears in the video - around 10:00 in. You will definitely have a better idea of how the server infrastructure is split between Azure storing and delivering the Content, Playfab delivering MP services, and how it’s all distributed and load -balanced.

That’s why on our Services Dashboard (have you seen it?) - we specifically break out MS XBox Gaming (which delivers and authenticates the game for both console and PC across XBox Gaming, Steam and MS-Store and is backed by Azure) and Playfab. One outage will affect the other.

If you have CC enabled on the video, the captioning will not be accurate as it’s probably being thrown off by the accents. When Aurelian says vo - he means voiceover which is a technical term for a pre-recorded line of dialogue, but Google’s auto-CC thinks he said video. So don’t go by the CC alone, it’s worth rewinding a few sections - Martial’s talk is very TED-like and straightforward - but detailed.

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Just flying down Grand Canyon on 40th Anniversary Helicopter Flight. Halfway through - get the lost connection dialogue box = lose control of helicopter and crash.
I’m on PC using X-box controller - as soon as the error box pops up it switched to mouse in order to click OK - which is just enough time to lose control of a frisky helicopter :frowning:

Thanks a Bunch - never had this problem on previous versions?

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The only thing that worries me reguarding servers, what happens say 10 years down the line as in regards to being able to play this simulation?

Yes scenery devs could make them decent, bit like true earth from orbx, but the weather system is closed, so wouldnt be able to use decent weather in sim, i personally dont use the ingame marketplace, and buy 3rd party, but what about the content that people do buy?

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The market not working (offline)! and servers are offline too !! and i don’t have any problem with internet connection?!! , after the new updated there is something go wrong with the sim

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Goto settings ,/ Data and turn online items back on, after SU11 it was all off by default

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I’m just confused why MSFS is the only piece of software that doesn’t utilise my full speed (UK), whilst downloads or updates through Steam/Xbox Live (example) take a fraction of the time. It should be using everything I have, for an always connected title, but it’s never done-so since launch.

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Fantastic!  A bit of clarity always helps.  I have issues with the performance sometimes, but at least having a clue helps manage expectations and relieve some of the angst.

However, I believe that there’s a lot MS could do to relieve a lot of the stress.  For example:

  1. Knowing where, and how heavily loaded, the individual download servers are and then allowing us to choose a less busy server or target a VPN endpoint near it.
  2. Knowing the relative connection speed between the various download servers relative to where YOU are, would allow you to choose a more optimal connection.

And stuff like this. It’s (relatively) inexpensive and would help everyone have a better download and game experience.

What say ye?

It already does so - Azure has a CDN. The ugly secret no one wants to talk about is that some ISPs will throttle traffic from certain CDNs to their customers as a bandwidth and capacity management tactic (among other things - there’s also an interconnect fee that makes this all a profit / revenue generator). This is undoubtedly true in CONUS, but even more so overseas. That’s why player countermeasures like using a VPN (esp. one that can emulate a foreign location origin) suddenly nets a user an amazing boost in connectivity speed and bandwidth to MSFS servers. And that is outside of MS Control.

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Then there is VyprVPN’s “Chameleon” protocol which hides the fact that you’re even using a VPN. :wink:

P.S.
What’s a “CDN”?

Content Delivery Network. It does what you asked for in No. 2.

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I´m quite tired to read as argumentation that the game is complex and it requires a lot of efforts. Yes, it´s complex but that does not allow to have a poor online implementation as an excuse for complexity. Indeed because that complexity the game should be 100% reliable on the connectivity portion and it´s not, even 2 years after release.

There are many topics which fail and whoever does not acknowledge that and listens to the users worldwide suffering it almost weekly is simply living in a parallel universe. Not only the main online features like weather, traffic or scenery data streaming have issues but many other basic things don´t work either:

  • Xbox app - MS Store integration is simply not working: game services produce issues, profile data is not synced or overwrites the local data randomly. Game is now even no longer appearing as purchased in MS Store and even the basic licence check produces issues (“please insert the DVD error”)

  • Patching system is stuck on the checking for updates verification forever. That in particular has no sense from a practical point of view as if client is not getting the data holding code waiting there for 3 years more won´t change the fact. It´s better to force a game exit or apply an automatic timed exit for the loop.

  • Logbook, progress, completed missions and landing challenges are not updated always nor saved on the cloud either to prevent data loss. Many Steam games sold for less than 20$ already implement a reliable cloud saving, including all your settings and savegames. This one is more expensive and it fails on that.

So yes, we need a solid online structure instead of 100 messages trying to blame users´s networks for the issues. There´s a real problem and it only grows over time. Are we talking about the same Microsoft here when discussing the online features of the game or just the neighbours of Microsoft? Please stay on the performance and quality level that such a mature company offers, because that´s simply what is expected. We didn´t join a crowdfunding experiment of some amateurs. We just joined the product of a company that has, as the recent name claims, 40 years on their backs with this simulator family.

Cheers

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Very possibly true - Raspberry Pi mirrors supposedly do that too, but I find if I manually select a local mirror like Yandex or True Network, my update download speeds increase dramatically.

Even if the CDN is perfect, (which I doubt), the ability to select an endpoint would give the end-user a sense of control over the problem which seems to be lacking. The user feels helpless and therefore gets upset.

If the user can see that every one of 87 different download endpoints are at 100% capacity, he might just say “I’ll wait until tomorrow” instead of getting bent outta shape.

In principle I agree 100% with this, and it’s not just the games - Windows updates are notoriously slow, even on hot, smokin’ internet connections.

What I suspect happened is one of two things:

  1. They deliberately under-provision as a cost-saving measure and let the users take it on the chin.

  2. They didn’t anticipate the insane response to MSFS 2020, despite “40 years” of simms and legions of loyal followers, and they got caught unprepared.

Neither of these are excuses, especially for a company the size of MS, but if someone would man-up and say “we goofed. This is what happened and this is what we’re doing to solve it”, people would be much happier and MS would garner a lot of respect from their userbase and the gaming community in general.

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You said: “The only thing that worries me regarding servers, what happens say 10 years down the line as in regards to being able to play this simulation?”

How about 2 years down the road when the novelty wears off and revenue drops. We shall see.
You made a very good point.

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Or that even 10 was just a number that would put us 12 years from release, and they stayed 10 year lofe span, but yoy also make a good point

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There’s many, what I would call, serious issues with this Sim. The persistent server issues since SU5 is one of them, for sure when it’s update time the servers get hammered that’s to be expected. It’s the intermittent issues in-between the updates that are of concern, and the awful illusion breaking pop up box which - after two+ years - we still don’t have the option to remove.

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What’s a good 3rd party source?

If I had a choice, I would much rather have a solid simulation experience without all the glitches than the eye-candy. Get it working before you get fancy.

Orbx
Simmarket
Aerosoft

The above 2 for scenery, allbeit at present it really isn’t needed as MSFS servers stream it (until when, who knows)

And as for aircraft i buy direct from the publisher, i/e pmdg / fenix / just flight

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First off, there is no 10 year limit, but I’m too tired to detail why…again. LOL

But just for fun, if next week, MS decided, enough is enough, then I’d imagine the game would revert to just offline use. MS would shut down the servers, freeze the sim in its current state, and then you fly with generic autogen, like people do in X-Plane. No more reporting home to mother for the sim, no more group flying. We’d be back to offline mode, with addon scenery.

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And a closed weather system.

Which is exactly my point

Not like P3D will be able to buy the licence either id have thought

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