Still NO Adverse Yaw Effect on C152 and C172

This is one reason they teach you – and demonstrate – slow flight characteristics. New pilots do not properly correct for sharp turns to final and stall or spin the aircraft.

Has anybody played around with accelerated stalls? We know adverse yaw isn’t right, but what about AOA in a turn?

Not entirely true, I was going around 80 knots, the plane is configured to balance out at cruise speed wich in my POH is said to be 107 knots at 75% power at 8000 alt pressure. XPLANE7878427 please do, my hope in any case is the simulator to become as close to reality as possible. If you have any question/request feel free. Yeti64 I tried spin with the game 152, worked (kinda) but not even close to a flat spin, full rudder and aileron into the spin does it and you can hear the stall buzzer…

1 Like

Well I tried to stall the aircraft, keep the elevator full up and steer with ailerons. You can fly all the way to the ground in a controlled manner using ailerons. Even rocking the wings using full aileron deflection does not exceed the local angle of attack. Basically it is not possible to create a wing drop using ailerons in MSFS. With a little bit of power on it creates loads of torque and you won’t manage to do the above so try it with power off and you will know what I mean…

I’m not impressed by the MSFS flight model, no adverse yaw, unrealistic stall characteristics, no propeller slipstream effect or prop. drag.

let alone center of gravity effects…

As I said in another thread, I’m not really hoping for Asobo to come up with realistic flight models. The default planes fly good enough for Xbox gamers and non-pilots – although my hope is that non-pilots are getting hooked into becoming real pilots!

I would be happy if Asobo put the necessary flight model control mechanisms in place and exposed them via WASM and SimConnect so that third party vendors can give us the realistic planes and systems we’re looking for.

I’ve done everything I know how to do to positively influence that outcome. I did, however, get some funny looks from the neighbors in my gym shorts and feathers, sticking pins in a voodoo doll, and sacrificing a bucket of KFC – I couldn’t bring myself to kill a live chicken.

B

1 Like

for fun , here is a real spin. January 13, 2021 - YouTube
credit : me

Another test about the spins,
I kept full ailerons and rudder , at about 1 or 2 spins I gave power to worsen the spin

here is a spin with full forward center of gravity

this one was with the gravity center aft as possible (the game wont let you go further then center tho)

There is clearly a lost of control there . (something is missing tho)

FYI , if you ever get into a spin with a 152 cessna as said in POH

1 - Verify Ailerons are Neutral and throttle is in idle
2 - Apply and hold full rudder opposite to the direction of rotation
3 - Just after the rudder reaches the stop, move the control wheel briskly forward enough to break the stall.(Full down elevator may be required at aft center of gravity loading to assure optimum recoveries.
4 - Hold these control inputs until rotation stops. Premature relaxation of the control inputs may extend recovery.
5 - As rotation stops, neutralize rudder, and make a smooth recovery from the resulting dive.

1 Like

A video demonstrating this. The student makes a better effort on his second attempt.

My understanding was that you should use rudder to arrest the spin, and keep the ailerons neutral. In your video I noticed you gave full right aileron during recovery, and full left to enter the spin.

In the IRL video, no aileron input was needed to either enter the spin, or to recover, and he only used his finger tips to pull back once their airspeed recovered. No white knuckles there!

Absolutely true, I just wanted to show how bad a spin the worst case scenario could get me.

like I showed in this other post right before (video of me doing a spin in a real plane)
Look how the plane stops turning in a crude way, thats when I applied full opposite rudde

cestbast

2h

for fun , here is a real spin. January 13, 2021 - YouTube
credit : me

Everytime I got into a spin in flight sim 2020, going faster into the spin got me out of the spin somehow

1 Like

Havent moved the yoke
The examintor in the videao clearly asked him to use full left rudder while initiating the spin, as I did.
another spin out of control brought me back in control go figure.

1 Like

Hello everyone, I’m making an attempt to bring this issue to the attention of the MSFS developers by asking them about it during the upcoming developer Question and Answer session due to be held live on Twitch on January 27, 2021 6:30 PM (UK time).

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/do-the-developers-have-plans-to-address-the-apparently-weak-adverse-yaw-in-the-flight-model-of-ga-propeller-aircraft/351005

1 Like

Voted :+1:. I saw quite some technical subjects are being voted for, there is hope!

2 Likes

Here is a list of adverse yaw effects we study at PPL level wich imo is the very basic.
Keep in mind there are some Wanted yaw, (as the one needed for a coordinated turn.

  • Slipstream
  • Asymmetric thrust
  • Torque
  • Gyroscopic effect
  • Aileron Drag
  • Turbulence

We also can break all of these down to a relation with relative speed/density of air.
Like someone said in this post , lift off in a cessna 152 from a track at 40 knots , while it is (possible) leaving the ground effect should bring you right back on the ground effect.
All of this is very basic understanding skill for a real pilot.
I know modeling must be a big job but as far as SIMULATION, you can’t cut the corners round.

2 Likes

This thread covers most of the missing prop. effects you are mentioning:

By the way slipstream, asymmetric thrust, torque (theoretically not a yaw effect, only on the runway this will cause yaw due to difference in wheel drag), gyroscopic effect (can be a yaw effect when pitching) and P-factor are not “adverse yaw”, adverse yaw is solely the yawing caused by difference in induced drag during turns. But I get your point.

1 Like

sorry but you are wrong. those are all adverse yaw effect.
Please don’t get people wrong information

Not in my book, adverse yaw by definition is the yaw resulting from differences in induced drag during turn i.e. the nose yawing in opposite direction to the direction of turn. Look it up.

Not that Wikipedia is such a reliable source always but: Adverse yaw - Wikipedia.

1 Like

Yeah I see your point, you make a difference between adverse and undesirable yaw.
this tho > explain me how asymetric thrust can only be a yaw effect on runway?

Asymmetric thrust is not, torque effect technically causes a roll which causes yaw due to difference in wheel drag on the runway. Asymmetric thrust causes yaw, you are right.

I read about this the other week, knowing it happens, and how to counter it, but didn’t know the mechanics of why. This page explained it rather well:

Left-Turning Tendencies Explained: Why Your Plane Pulls Left During Takeoff | Boldmethod.

I knew it was happening, expected it, but didn’t know it was due to the left wheel being forced downwards, in response to the clockwise spinning prop.

You live, and learn.

On a low power piston engine I don’t think the torque effect is much noticeable though, the other effects, primarily slip stream has a far greater effect during take-off roll. The only time I ever really experienced the torque effect is during stall with power ON, you will notice a slight roll not very strong either. On high powered aircraft it might be a different story though. Highest power single engine prop I’ve flown was a G36 Bonanza, only a few hours and I didn’t do any stalls in it. Otherwise I’ve flown mostly 160 / 180 BHP pistons…

1 Like