The 1935 Douglas DC-3

It cost them money to make even if it’s free to the end user. They’re not in the business of making top quality aircraft. Top quality aircraft must cost a lot more to make - not claiming to know it all here, but…

The majority of the player base doesn’t seem to care too much. Personally I thought the DC3 was fine. I don’t use the mod because it ruins something for me - I forget what, but it’s not useable for me.

Hate to break it to you, but neither of those are in any way true.

Personally I like the DC3 (RL memories for one, so I’ll take what I can get), but I keep my expectations low and know the type of experience it is designed to deliver on.

It’s non-trivial to code interactive systems simulations especially using some of the backward coding paradigms infesting the MSFS SDK, let alone making halfway decent flight models. Texturing to please the rivet counters is also a hard job😂 Audio? Just as difficult but magic that elevates a product when it’s done well. Those nice manuals? A skilled tech writer needs to put them together.

It’s not linear development effort either, it tends to go exponential beyond a certain level of complexity due to non-linear interactions and testing complexity.

It’s a bit like: The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.[1][2]
—Tom Cargill, Bell Labs

That’s why you get planes stratified into feature/pricing tiers, because there needs to be a line drawn at some point if you’re going to deliver.

There’s a lot of different developers: some overpromise, some underpromise, some don’t promise at all but ultimately you get to see on launch whether they let you slip the surly bonds of Earth and dance the virtual skies on laughter-silvered wings (apolgies to John Gillespie Magee Jr), or exit quickly to the main menu with a snarl and another win for the god of dashed expectation management.

Touch wood the MSFS 2024 SDK developer experience will be 100% better, but no one will know until we get to play with it.

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All of what you have said is probably true, however we have had members of the community with no prior knowledge of the SDK manage to go in and fix some of the bugs and issues of the aircraft released within weeks. So I think, some developers could have done a better job.

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The fact that you can hack some aircraft if the files are open is a positive aspect of MSFS, but they are two entirely different development processes, and in no way comparable. They no doubt even differ a lot between different dev companies.

You can always start your own dev shop if you think it’s that easy😜

As I said, I like Dak, using a couple of different mods. Don’t have any real issues with it. I can even shut one engine down to see how it flies on one👌Well worth the price!

The Denarq Twin Beech - Beech 18 improvements mod. New Update 1.5 is out is another good example in addtion to the DC3 Duckworks mod (and others like @NixonRedgrave ), and that was a lot of work to do. Kudo’s to the hardy souls that take those hacking challenges on!

Oh boy, when did Is at it was easy? I just said it was possible. I’m sorry if expecting developers to fix known bugs with their products is too high of a standard.

There are awesome mods made that I use all the time and they go far beyond fixing a few bugs. Not exactly the same thing.

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It was a free DC-3 from a developer whose target market and quality is very well known.

Of course you can expect them to fix obvious bugs, but wishing the product to be levels above the tier it is obviously developed for (which is what a bunch of people here seem to be doing) is just an exercise in wishful thinking.

But hey, good luck with that!

I’m surprised PMDG hasn’t done a DC-3 tbh, it seems right up their alley.

Then we are in agreement :wink:

They seem to have abandoned prop planes. Isn’t the DC-6 the only one? And it doesn’t seem like it’s remotely as popular as the Boeing jets. I’m thinking the jets are a better financial decision despite my near total lack of interest in them : /

It would seem so. Not a small job to do, even with the experience of the DC-6.
I guess the market for the fabled “study level” (or near SL) vintage big pistons is just too small to make it worth the effort. Though Flying Iron is doing a B-17, so you never know. DC-3 would also fit in their catalog quite nicely.

Who knows, maybe there will be a better one in MSFS 2024, they haven’t announced the full lineup yet. DC-3’s are a classic skydiving boogie a/c. Not to mention the Basler BT-67.

For the aircraft fidelity and development sake it is better to never show up on MS list do do… It simply hamper any improvement or creation of deeper/better versions of it (goose and pc-6 are honorable exception)
p. s. to keep thread :wink: I like dc-3, but looking at dc-47 review I wonder how bad it sounds as dc-3 sound just mediocre especially on idle…

Yea, the difference with Flying Iron is they gain a whole different level of buyers since they sell for a reasonable price. Very much looking forward to that B17! So far I’ve only found very minor errors with any of their aircraft. They set my standard for price to expectation.

It’s bad. REALLY bad. It 100% ruins the aircraft for me. I bought it knowing AH did it only because it was a 100% donation if the aircraft didn’t turn out.

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Microprose just announced a B-17 for MSFS as well. FSExpo Day One: Live updates – Stormbirds

Maybe they will do a DC-3 as part of https://www.heritagevalorcollection.com/

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Wow, I’m pretty excited about that! It looks much further along than FI’s. I’ll keep an eye on it for sure.

I love a good B-17…

But can we PLEASE get back on topic. I thought this was a thread about the Douglas DC-3.

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We did, 3 days ago. Fire away.

It was related discussion btw, the context was discussing developers who might be best aligned to actually do a near SL or SL DC-3 based on their catalog and historical/period aircraft experience, despite their being one already in the sim.

If you have something to discuss about the DC-3 then have at it.
Don’t be shy!

I have one actually, shirley!

How about a pros/cons comparison of DC-3 mods?
Rather than just say xxxx mod is the best because I say so, how about some reasoning as to the pros/cons of the available mods, and how we might improve on them - if needed?

I use:

Others?

Going to have a few flights over the next week or so and see what I can come up with. (if I can tear myself away from the Huey)

You use both of those mods together? I only use Duckworks. I guess at some point I got the impression that there was enough overlap that one might interfere with the other.

No, separately.

They have some crossover in features but take different approaches, so the experience is a little different. I wouldn’t say one is more “accurate” than the other, we’re in fantasy land after all.

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I created this flight/handling mod to work with the Duckworks mod as a ‘best of both worlds’ solution:

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