Firstly I’m not writing this as an attack on Asobo, they’re doing some great work despite what looks like very limited time from Microsoft’s release schedules.
I’ve recently been enjoying the Beechcraft Bonanza G36 using the excellent fixes and improvements mod. The vanilla aircraft sadly flies like a brick.
However I can’t help feeling it’s not right that the community should be having to fix any of the aircraft. Both from a practical point of view of having to keep up to date with multiple sources but also on the principle that people purchase MSFS under the impression that all the aircraft will be somewhat realistic out of the box.
It depends. If the starting product is fine as-is, but someone offers mods for it, that’s cool. I’m all about modding stuff to get extra functionality.
However, if the product is incomplete or not working right, then yeah, that’s not right. While I’m satisfied with the planes for the most part, I do feel we got seriously short-changed on a lot of aspects.
The G36 is a prime example of that. I took that plane out for the first time last week and it was horrible. I haven’t tried the mod yet, but I look forward to doing so, as I hear it fixes the shortcomings. The stock aircraft is extremely anemic and just don’t perform for ■■■■.
Then there’s the flight computers. The various FMCs offer nothing but the most basic functionality, and that’s not even complete (like missing VNAV / LNAV). It took the Working Title team to come out with awesome implementations of the Garmin suites. What they did for the G1000 should be the baseline that we’d expect from MSFS in stock format. The work they did on the G3000 for the TBM is absolutely outstanding. Not perfect (yet), but a huge leap over the stock stuff.
And in the end, mods shouldn’t be fixing issues, rather just doing what they’re called - MODifying for whatever an end user wants.
I should NOT have to get any modification from anyone other than Microsoft/Asobo for anything I purchased from them. If Windows 10 was as hosed up as this sim, Microsoft would have been sued by hundreds if not thousands of companies for incomplete work. We paid (119.95) for me, and aint as advertised and promised, not this 1930 barn sitter just discovered as a “find for gold”. They could just tell us well it’s going to take a year, and then well, would you wait?
I think therein becomes the issue - I don’t think anyone told the community to make mods for the aircraft we have as default. I think, in any sim, there’s no real expectation that the default aircraft are going to be “study-level”. The Flight Sim community is one of the most resilient and helpful communities you’ll find, so I think the awesome creators were going to create even if the default aircraft didn’t need any overhauls.
I don’t believe there’s a “right or wrong” situation here, just that this was inevitable with the type of community we have - under any circumstance.
The issue isn’t that the aircraft aren’t study level, they never have been out of the box. However, this is the first MSFS I’ve played where they are just downright buggy out of the box. To me that’s the issue. Dolphin dancing, fuel consumption, turboprop torque logic, excessive ground resistance, the list goes on.
What’s really frustrating about the paywall aircraft (premium and deluxe) is that those are encrypted so the community cant even go in and fix them. When the Longitude has a range IRL of 3500nm but in the sim I’m lucky to get 1500, that’s not a study level issue that’s just a rush job.
Edit: some aircraft are better than others. The GA aircraft are generally better than the airliners. The TBM is decent, only real issue I have is the torque logic being backwards.
The issue is not that the aircraft are not study-level. There is a difference between simplifying something and having what is provided be downright broken. I am getting exhausted with people pointing out basic things like dynamic pitch instability, insane ground friction, landing/taxi lights that don’t light up an area that actually helps you SEE, and being told “well no one promised study level”. No one is ASKING FOR study level - just actual working aircraft.
The stock aircraft are simply not fit for purpose in many instances (incorrect performance, poor flying qualities, or poor avionics). I have to wonder if anyone tested them on any cross country flights, or if the entire test program is just 5 minute tests.
I don’t think these fixes should be required, but they are saving the sim for a lot of us right now. Without the G1000 mod and the G36 Improve or Bonanza Turbo mod, I’d probably have set the entire thing aside.
Frankly if I were Textron being featured in that Partnership video I’d be embarrassed at the way my products were represented in this sim as delivered.
I think you’ve misunderstood my sentiment. Nobody expects default study level aircraft, that much is true, but my point was that the community were going to create nonetheless. Even had we seen the best default aircraft ever seen in a sim, I’m positive we’d still be seeing mods for aircrafts.
I too would like to see more out of the default aircrafts, but I’m also not expecting that right away. I’ll gladly have patience knowing that the development team has acknowledged the issues and are working on them.
Knowing what I know now, I would gladly pay again to be able to use this sim as is rather than waiting another year for it to be released. Asobo has been releasing updates, and I believe they will continue to do so. I do understand the perspective of being “tricked” into being a paying beta tester, but I agree with the above post about the resilience of this community, and I do think the future of this simulator is the next best thing to actually climbing in a cockpit. Sure, it’s not there yet, but I’m already enjoying watching the progress.
The fact is it would have been better and logical for msfs to have included fewer aircraft but more realistic. This way their limited time would have been spread across fewer planes to design and test. They tried to include too many with the obvious results.
As far as fixes go…the scenery is a big one. Even though out of the box it is truly amazing and blows away any other sim completely out of the water.
My biggest gripe with the scenery was the limited and outdated BING 3d map data when compared to google maps. Bing’s 3d photogrammetry areas are basically absent in many/most areas around the world outside of the USA.
Its ironic that Microsoft have brought us this amazing sim yet the community is now relying on GOOGLE photogrammetry cities and other 3d areas to enhance the Microsoft sim lol.
MSFS 2020 has 2 petabytes of Data (crazy), whilst GOOGLE maps has 20 petabytes of data(even more crazy!). Now using Google maps instead of Bing would of been a much better option, which sadly isn’t going to happen.
On a positive Note the Azure engine does a brilliant job of creating believable cities and most areas of the world look just great even without 3d photogrammetry. But flying over London and finding Buckingham Palace was basically a big block of flats kind of spoiled the illusion.
But am grateful for the community in re-addressing these issues, so a big thanks to anyone actually converting google stuff to use in the sim! Thank you!
Is it right? No. Is it expected? Yes. And by expected, I mean it is no surprise, not that we as a community demand it!
Excluding flat out fixes, no matter how good the planes are, you’ll find someone who has actually flown a given plane in real life for 30 years, and the differences between that plane, and the simulated versions for that individual would be jarring. That’s the sort of person who would step up to the plate, and implement a mod to address that.
We are lucky to have those with the talent to tackle these issues.
Community modders are not there to fix basic issues in the base sim. thats Asobo and Microsofts job. We are not expecting to mod windows 10 to iron out bugs. We expect that to be done by the developer. Yes?
I think that is what’s so great about the flightsim community. The effort that is taken to bring the sim on another level has always been outstanding. I see it as a gift from simmers to simmers. Asobo is providing the platform, modders make it even better. It’s all together, not mods against stock developers.