The tale of two sims

I would love to know how there is such a varied experience in this simulator? Reading the discussions here i can’t figure out how outside of hardware configurations can people have such a different experience? Is it based on the type of pilot/flight the people take on?

How is your experience with this sim? Good or Bad
What type of flying do you mostly do? IFR or VFR

Looking forward to a meaningful discussion.

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We should be aware that there is a huge variation of users.

On one end, we have those that have no idea of flying and no proper hardware, often only a mouse, and no interest to invest time to study or configure a sim. They want to have fun, first of all.

On the other end, we have the hardcore simmers or even real pilots that come from X-Plane or Prepar3D, or even good old FSX. They have very good hardware and want planes that work as close to the real thing as possible. They enjoy the additional eye candy, but it’s not their main focus.

MS is leaning towards the first group because they bring the money. But without the reputation to have a sim that attracts also the second group, this does not work too. So they try to deliver a full-grown simulator without shrieking off the gamers. I think they did reasonably well so far. Some expectations have simply been too high.

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Thanks for starting this discussion. I Mainly fly VFR but plan to fly IFR.

My rig consists of a 2070 super driving two 4k monitors (in game a use nvidia surround for one something like 5000 x 1440 monitor). I also have a 3rd monitor with touchscreen functionality and SimInnovations Airmanager and a knobster. I mainly fly the C172 with the G1000 panel although i also have the one with vacuum gauges. Only 50% of the buttons of the G1000 work, but these are mainly the Flight-Plan-Buttons and the softbuttons below the screens. I hope more simconnect Events will come to FS2020 with the next patch. The current update reads promising. But AP, Radio 1, Com 1 and a lot, lot more currently work well, so that i can fly without any problems.

I tend to fly around an hour every evening with different weather conditions. After finishing work everyday, i think about the location that I want to fly today - Like Norway, Molde to Geiranger, New York City, Hong-Kong, hometown Bremen/Germany, wanted to fly seychells, but the Airport was not built :-), Flought Mauritius instead, and so on… Sometimes I use ILS landings and gps/vor navigation and sometimes I try to just use my eyes and Skyvector. Next week Japan?

So as you see, i make the most of it. Having a great time, looking forward to every thrusday :-).

What I want to do some time next is flying with Vatsim -VFR, since IFR seems to work not so well today. - i sat there several times listening to voice-traffic :-), but I have to learn some phrasology, i think. On Vatsm, they friendly asked me if I am using the new Flight Sim, because I was heading the wrong way at the gate :slight_smile: at EDDW… OK. Another Bug to file at Zendesk :wink: . And for me a reminder to repark my cessna before connecting to Vatsim.

Yes, there are bugs (I am also suffereing from the heading 10 deg increase), but hacked myself around it with Siminnovations AirManager - i save the heading, increment it programatically and write the value to the sim instead of just incrementing it. I want to adjust the sensitivity of my rudder pedals - and this does not work until next week - but it’s just a little bit to sensitive - i can wait some more time to fix this - or use 3rd party tools, but i try not to use them if the bug is not really game-breaking. I have to pop out the windows manually and position them every flight. And so on, and so on.

But hey, it works, and it works well. The time i spend doing workarounds are a lot less then the time preparing my flights and of course flying.

I have worked on an open souce Pinball Simulation (Visual Pinball) around 10 years ago. The program itself was based on a very old simulation and graphics engine. You could place some parts on the wood and the look of it was not so brilliant, but then the third party developers (artists!!) came and brought life into the sim. They made an astonishing work based on what they had to work with. Everything looked so beautiful. I guess the base of Visual Pinball was OK, what it needed was some love from third party developers. OH, AND also to mention al LOT of Bugfixes (and time)… With VP everything was free, and done by private people. Here we have some companies working on content and also see some freeware/open source ware on the horizon (A32X - Project to mention, which i have not tried yet) - and as much as i can tell: the base is OK here, too.

And one thing, that I do from now on is to read things on this forum in the morning and in the evening AFTER flying. Not before flying, because the unplayable-rants “poisons” my experince.

So in conclusion: Don’t panic and carry a towel. Just make the most of it and have some fun.

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D’ye know, I simply love your post Cupii7093.

Have a great big like from me!

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Thanks.

After i wrote this I thought a little bit about it. and have to add:

I have a motto in real life:
Love it, leave it or change it.

Where
“Love it” means to accept something how it is.
“leave it” means - not to negatively think about something, but just walk away and forget about it
“change it” means to actively change something, so you are able to love it.

I love the Sim and love flying,
I would love IFR and Airliners, but i leave the Sim >>for that<< for now.
I change the sim with filing bug-reports, maybe work on the EDDW problem someday (although other people may be faster than I), bugfix using third party tools.

I hope that many more would canalise their energy (and there is much, too much energy in this forum) into actively changing or loving it.

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When they break basic functions like joystick sensitivity, and then can’t even manage to fix critical items with a hot patch but rather wait for the next ‘big’ update, then I simply can’t love it, even if it has bugs.

I wouldn’t mind if this was sold as early access, but I can definitely understand why many people are really ■■■■■■.

And it’s even worse when they act like nothing is wrong and just waste their time telling us how awesome the next scenery update is and bomb us with Screenshots. I’m a calm person, but even for me enough is enough at some point.

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May we have another section under communities called “Rants”?

I am seriously getting tired of constant negativity on forums and completely fail to comprehend why such huge criticism of everything they do ever since the sim was released. Have none of us ever bought any product(s) that under performed or we had to write off?

Asobo gets criticized even while trying - ohh they left such obvious thing out, why are they focusing on churning out new content when there so may bugs yada yada yada…

Be damned if you do and be damned if you don’t. People are not willing to concede them even a month on the grounds that we spent money to purchase it - not an unfair statement by any means but, comparing it with sims that are established and been for a while doesn’t do whole lot of justice to Asobo. Come on P3D got to 64 bit with v4, xp got the vulcun update recently - can someone please tell time lapse between release of their first version and the time it took for them to reach here? Asobo has been brave enough to expand the horizons and push boundaries - they did not succeed in the first try but will eventually get it right.

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I played up until latest patch but went back to XP11 since it works better for my needs at the moment. Not a fanboy of either sim, I just know what I need to have a satisfying experience for myself and right now MSFS can’t deliver despite having some better qualities, but mostly just visual. No biggie, I will come back to it if/when it has developed to a satisfying state.

Now we just wait for that one french dude or whatever to arrive here and call me a whiner lmao

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X-Plane works P3D works FSX works even MFS2009 still works. MFS2020 is getting better been flying VFR now and getting used to the planes that will fly AP and not disconnect, so it just takes time and patients.

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… and i think this is absolutely OK, you leave it for now and will come back. But you don’t make yourself headaches or even produce yourself anger, about how it could be or how it should be. It is what it is.

And if you would had decided not to come back, it would be OK for you, too, i guess.

I have decided to stay for now. But of course: I wrote that i want to fly IFR someday, and if the day comes and MSFS does not fulfil my needs, i will change back again to another simulator (which i btw. have plenty of addons for, from scenery, to weather, to aircraft, topping the price of the premium edition by far). For now, the quality you get when flying VFR in MSFS, especially in 3d Cities like my hometown, without any addon-fiddeling is superb. And i do not only talk about visual quality, but ability to actually recognise sceneries that you know from real life - and i don’t mean only sceneries in form of Citiy centers, but grocery and home-depot stores in the outskirts of a city, that i can recognise when flying.

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Too many factors, many of them determined by the pilot’s rigs, in my opinion. I figured that lots of addons will can slow down performance significantly. For example, the A32nx mod steals around 15 fps on my machine (mid-tier). I’m not angry about it as the mod is currently in a very early stage (v0.2) therefore likely not optimized and I imagine there’s a lot of computing to do in the background for all its sweet features.

I’ve also read that an open web browser might somewhat affect performance. For me (and likely many others) it’s normal to have an open browser window with charts, METARs, maps and so on and it’s nothing I’d personally like to refrain from.

Not sure if pilots take things like that into consideration.

Yeah, I would go with that for an off the cuff explanation:

  1. Poor performance - Hardware, or flying GA only, and not airliners
  2. Twitchy controls, difficult to trim - Better quality yokes often have better resolution. Lower resolution on the axes makes it trickier to fly/trim. Possibly inexperience, too.
  3. System instability, crashes. Combination of hardware, coupled with undisclosed unstable overclocks. Bugs, of course! :wink:

I only fly GA, and have pretty good hardware, so don’t really have problems performance wise, and can enjoy 1080p@Ultra with no problems. I use a VirtualFly Yoko+, TQ6+, and MFG Crosswind v2, so resolution wise there are no problems there, plus the yokes travel, on pitch, is better even than the Brunner. I also don’t OC, but I have had the odd crash but they are very rare. I think since launch I’ve had maybe 3 or 4.

i7 9700k, 2070super, 32 mb, running 1440 on a 55" 4k television at 40ish FPS. 4k puts me at 30-35. Most settings are Ultra with a few knocked down to High. Internet connection is 75 mb which I rarely see.

Had no issues with downloading anything except for the 6 hours for the initial download and 3 hours downloading the patch. I set them up and went to bed. Slept 6 hours on Aug. 17th to the 18th and woke up to see less than 500 mb left to download. Finalized the install when I got home from work.

I fly GA in the 152, 172, and Savage Cub as all of the other planes I was interested in (mainly the Baron 58 and SR22 which I purchased the most expensive option specifically for these 2 planes) have the G1000. I like to see what my speed and altitude is when I’m flying, which I can’t see anything with the G1000.

I had some stutters with running Simconnect and Little Navmap until the patch. I flew in perfectly clear skies all the time until the patch.

I haven’t had a single issue. Planes fly great, visually looks great. I accidentally moved the render scale to 200 rather than the detail to 200 when I first started it and ended up stuck with 1 FPS and couldn’t back out of the flight to fix it for a while. That was the only issue I had and it was of my doing.

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Don’t forget software differences; there’s not a chance in hell everyone has the latest Windows 10 version, or has the sim installed in the default drive locations (instead of non-C-drive locations that was customary with FSX)

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I do love the sim alot!!!

Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones as the current state quite suits my need, and expectations.
Long time simmer +30 years on and off, mostly flying GA planes vfr, somtimes ifr, and not too fussed about a quirk or two. Bought brand new computer just for MSFS 2020, and a stellar 1000mib connection. Not into fiddling with mods or changing config files.

So far I have had a smoot ride, install though slow even on a 1000mib connection went fine, no problems with either patch, no CTD so far, the GA planes work to my expectations and looks stunning, 2-3 black screen incidents, but gone after generic planes turned on.
No problems with sensitivity as using Honeycomb yoke and Thrustmaster pendular pedals.

Asobo have had to set a high base level for the sim for it to last, and that have challenged many people’s hardware setup and internet connectiones, leading to frequent CTD, download problems etc. And this are people that have run the other sims quite well.They ofcause are dissatisfied and frustrated. I think that I would have been one of them trying to run it on my old rig.
Having sold +one million copies lots of newcomers must be playing and experiencing issues and bugs.
They have no patience and expect the sim to work now.

My expectation was that if it was 60% ok I would be more than happy, and this is after spending 3.500us$ on hardware just for this sim. Where we are o the scale from 0 to 100% I dont know…but it is more than 60%.

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A little OT perhaps, but this is one of the fun things you can do with the Saitek panels, and SPAD.

You can turn the radio panel into a display for whatever you want, as long as it is exposed by MSFS, or SimConnect. If you want an EGT gauge, you can do it.

Since this is a completely new flight sim platform I decided to not purchase it right after the initial release but wait a while longer, maybe when a Service Pack is released(??).

I am planning on purchasing the Premium Deluxe version for $120 and I just don’t have time to be a “beta” tester, unless they want to give me the sim for free… or pay me to be a tester. :blush: :slightly_smiling_face:

I’m 80 hours in, and my experience has been great.

I started the download as soon as it was available at midnight on the 18th, and it was ready and waiting when I woke up in the morning. Been flying since with nothing more than a few noteworthy issues:

  1. One early crash when a device connected while flying.
  2. One unexplained crash while landing.
  3. Frequent stutters. (Greatly improved by the last patch, and fixed completely with Process Lasso)
  4. Occasional drops into single-digit frame rates, requiring a restart of the sim.

Other than that, nothing; it’s a shame not everyone is flying the same sim I have been.

EDIT: I should note, I exclusively fly VFR. No IFR, no airliners, no autopilot…

thank you this is what this community is all about, let help the teams fixes it

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…just lay back, we’re doing that for you. No biggie, you’re welcome.

Jeez, you’ve never been a voluntary game tester, have you?

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