I second that 100% !!!
Loss of control bcs of 10 degree wing-dip? Ok…
The last time I co-piloted(didn’t land) in a PA28 was in 10ish kts winds. But the pilots always came in high from that direction due to bumpiness of terrain and known mechanical turbulence on short FNL.
Maybe opt for a steeper than 3.0 degree approach next time if you see terrain or man-made-objects on short FNL😉
Lots of buildings there and you seem to pass 30ft over a pretty large red building just as the most severe spike hits. Cant see the wind direction, but don’t agree it’s way too strong.
That wasn’t a 10-degree wing dip.
PACZ 260/12G22kt -RA BKN004 08/07 etc etc
For those who weirdly believe (just a belief) that Turb in MFS2020 is way overdone then try to fly with a C172 at PACZ, of course in MFS2020 you will be able to fly sitting in a chair because it’s way too casual, too gentle in this kind of severe weather conditions despite of big dark cells, CB, gust winds… I just made a “flight test” (SU10 last beta) with the excellent Milviz C310, well definitely no issue to fly almost “straight”, only some moderate turb that could “afraid” some users here but it has nothing to do with real life.
Just for the sake of safety, in RL I won’t fly in this sort of weather condition, it would be lethal no doubt! In MSFS 2020 flying through a big time CB with your Piper you can still make some screenshots, the left hand on the yoke, the camera in the right one, checking your whatsapp messages, no problem!
MFS2020 : no danger, no severe turb, no convective winds at all, no huge up/downdrafts and some of you guys still claiming that turb is way overdone?! How come? I could took off and landed safely my C310R, I of course feel the impact of the gust (tks Asobo to bring them back by the way!)
I did the same flight using Xplane 11/Xenviro with a C172, i wasn’t even able to take off after two attemps (which makes sense, right?), the third one I made it, I took off but stalled the bird at 150 ft above the ground because of huge turbulence that it became so hard to maintain the envelop of the bird and the correct airspeed (which makes sense as well in this kind of unsafe weather), impossible to keep the attitude safely, bank angle to 70° left/right and got in a spin which was impossible to recover! (which definitely could happen in RL! That is the reason why in PPL classes, they really insist about the weather conditions, no ego, stay grounded! I was grounded many many times in my own experiences and I’m still there to write on this forum lol)
C Xplane11/Xenviro PA31 (Simcoders, REP)
I did an other try (just for fun) in Xplane with the REP PA31, two engines… Just for fun because in real life like everybody else I’ve learned to shut up if the weather won’t be my friend in flight, especially about VFR flights if the conditions are not ok to lift the bird, you just don’t want to kiss the CB with a TB10 or a PA28!!!
(in MSFS 2020 so far do what you want to do in any kind of weather and complain anytime you want if it’s just an opinion that it “feels” way overdone and Asobo will listen to you, probably)
Anyway, I was able to take off the PA28 in Xplane 11/ Xenviro (weather engine) very short initial climb before that things got wrong. At 100ft bank angle, yoke/rudder in action to put it back in a safe attitude, the right hand on the throttles, drastic loss of speed near to Vso almost stalled the bird so I retracted the flaps, the gear even before what is published, almost full throttles to recover the speed then it got a little better until I reached the CB very soon, right away a huge updraft around 4000 ft/min (because of abrupt manoeuvring the bird got above the Va… a little bit later the airspeed got down because of convective, and I just stalled the bird which engaged a spin and crashed!
This is how it goes in Xplane (even if it’s not perfect but it gives a solid picture of how it goes in reality in unsafe weather conditions of the day), this how it goes as well in Real Life… So the question here, what do you mean by the Sacro-Sanct OVERDONE ???
So based on the complain philosophy here I guess then that Turbulence is overdone in Xplane, so that I guess that in real life Turbulence is way overdone as well and yes it is overdone in real life, you can’t fly a B777 in TS but in MSF2020 enjoy your C152 in TS! …
However even if it’s getting better in MFS2020 (Gust winds got back in the game) but it feels that Asobo heard complains more than Mother Nature because since SU10 Beta, the concidence makes that I was flying in live weather only in CAVOK areas so far and I did realize today that at PACZ (just for testing bad Live Weather) that the turbulence system seems to be very very very gentle in unsafe METAR/TAF for GA, it looks like they put turbulence down, so gamers should be happy…
Hopefully it’s just a beta and hopefuly they won’t move back but will provide to gamers and hardcore simmers an idea of how it goes in real skies (again, maybe two options “game mode” and “realisitc mode” as it was requested to please everybody, still presets weather yet but…)
Yeap sometimes you just stay grounded, or at least you pay attention to your flight plan before start your engine considering that you just don’t want to fly a C152 in TS or CB, you have to avoid them… again in RL turbulence : way overdone for sure! It’s the dance of Mother Nature, you won’t fight it with complains it doesn’t work like on forum! lol
Realism is fun for learning and to enjoy, I do believe!
Happy Landings to all of you guys!
I just tried Grand Case again and literally just gave up in frustration.
Thats the good thing about simulators. In simulators we are never grounded. Can choose another location any time we want. We are also safe using it even if the condtions in the sim weather is dangerous.
Agree, with everything you said I think also unatural limits makes the air feel completely wrong. Whats the point with all of the CFD and stuff if they use limits?
All the same its a sim for everyone and I think there should be a choice between real and tame. By all means link them to a rewards system or differentiate in the logbook but If folk want to fly over their house in a storm then I won’t argue so long as it doesn’t affect me?
Maybe I’m being too liberal but I guess that’s just my nature.
Hmmm…tried TFFG too liveWX. Easterly winds 21ish kts, landing R12. Some turbulence on short FNL, but no major problems in the Arrow. Went in a high, still had the turbulence, but at least it gives more time for corrections, and once you get over the RWY its smooth.
Do you have a joystick/hotas or yoke?
At least it easier with a good setup than an Xbox- controller or similar…
Couldn’t get this to work. What is the name of the command that you have assigned to RMB?
Which is part of the problem. I flew it several times during the day yesterday, winds were never 20+ according to the METARs at TNCM. I checked several other weather sites. Meteoblue had it as 20 gusting 25 (which technically isn’t a gust), actual reported weather had it much lower. It was steady (and wrong) all day; the wind decreased throughout the day into the evening, but not on Meteoblue.
Two things: the mechanical turbulence is wrong. Period. And Meteoblue isn’t accurate. I tried looking around the website, it’s run by some guy. Try reading through all the info and charts and descriptions of the Meteogram or whatever it’s called. None of it makes any sense. It also has a lot of information about weather above 3,000 feet MSL, but absolutely no detail at all about surface weather. It’s bizarre.
In any event, the Warrior is extremely difficult to control on short final. The mechanical turbulence is jarring. And that is just not realistic in an 11-knot wind. It just isn’t. I’ve flown in weather like yesterday countless times in Cherokees in my life. I have been riding in and flying Cherokees for 45 years. It. Is. Not. Realistic. It just isn’t.
VR - Cockpit Focus
It is, it’s the highest meassured windspeed over a 10 minutes period of time.
Meteoblue reports them everywhere. Far more realistic than METAR but not always accurate to what METAR says.
The duration of 20 seconds is 10m above groundlevel stationary. While flying into the gusts that changes. I feel the frequency is too high, especially after latest su 10 beta 1.27.13. I would like a slider to control the frequency to what i find realistic. There exists no data of frequency. But i hope they nail the frequency to feel more fluid in the future if they decide to not implement a slider.
Besides there is no METAR available for TFFG.
This chart you can use planning your landing at that airport in the sim. I tried the winds matched those. That the most important. It’s not in the real world we are flying when we are using the sim.
I’m not against if they improve the turbulence to be more realistic but to me the bumps didn’t feel too much in 21KTS of wind. I expected it to feel bumpy there.
Those bumps has nothing to do with gusts by the way. It’s the mechanical turbulence.
This is one airport that reports gusts in calm winds.
KGBK 061215Z AUTO VRB05G10KT 9SM CLR 29/23 A3006 RMK A01
KBWP 061215Z AUTO 02006G11KT 10SM CLR 18/14 A2995 RMK AO2
Not that it matters, but 20 can’t “gust” to 25. As you rightly cited, it has to be 9 knots of variation to be a gust. And I have specifically said, it’s the mechanical turbulence that I have a problem with.
Here’s the thing - it didn’t change at all from when the wind was 18 to when the wind was 11 (my last flight of the day. That’s almost a 50% reduction in wind, and it didn’t change the behavior of the sim at all.
I’m curious about the hourly forecast that you posted, did you get that from Meteoblue? And you’re right about METARs. I have no problem at all with METARs being “wrong”, i.e. not matching what you find in the real world. Because real-world METARs are wrong all the time. A METAR is simply a snapshot in time at a very specific place.
Can you point me to where you found that hourly weather forecast? I’d like to see it if it’s from Meteoblue.
One last note - on the Jepp chart for TFFG it warns of turbulence if the wind is from N-NE or S-SW, which it was yesterday. So I figured maybe it’s not the mechanical turbulence of the buildings, but rather the hills around the airport. So I flew over to TQPF (Anguilla) 3 miles away, and got mad turbulence on final there. And Anguilla is dead flat.
My conclusion is that it’s the buildings causing it.
Scroll down until you see this
If you can’t see it press this
About the mechanical turbulence i don’t know how much force it should make. Hope they nail it. I can post a graph showing the Y-axis winds caused by it. I don’t know what it helps though. Maybe some.
You can see on this graph where i passed those buildings It’s the up and down drafts caused by the mechanical turbulence. Good spot testing it. Low on thermals because of water
But i can’t tell from this if it’s too much or too less. Needs mathematical skills and research and i’m not that person to tell if it’s correct or not. Winds between 16KTS-21KTS
Same test with 1KTS constant winds with same wind direction in custom weather.
That’s really interesting! So clearly it is the buildings. Where did you get that graph of the winds for your flight?
I’m using liveflightdata. I think we will see all of this in that visualise tool releasing in an upcoming update but those graphs is good until we have that in my opinion.
I think it would be greate to have those kind of graphs in the sim as well.
Actually we could use that and report own observations of the weather we have in the sim in real time. Using that tool i do not need to check METAR. I know what winds i have without it. Like a flying weather station
And I’ll try the Arrow today and see if I find it different than the Warrior. I do know that the stock airplanes are much worse.
Yes that is correct.
Agree, i think mass needs to be tuned in most aircraft. PMDG 737 is not ga but they nailed the feel of weight perfect in my opinion. Same with fenix a320. Can really feel that those are heavy when flying. I’ve always felt that warrior arrow and those has felt a bit too much bumpy over the terrain even before su10.
Do you know of two planes that has around equally weight? Would like to compare the difference of flightmodels over those houses. Maybe 172? but that is default and i know that has not that good model. Rudder has no effect at all at ground in that plane. Can’t even use it as it is right now.
I compared warrior and 172 in 10KTS of wind. The turbulence felt more in warrior but i’m not sure what model is best modeled.
I think those body accelerations could be smoothen out as i remember @N6722C mentioned somewhere that also shows graphs of simvar values.
I think that would both make it feel more realistic/fluid and at the same time be a bit easier to react to those abrupt changes. But as i have already said. I’m not the person that should tell what to do. Only my own opinion.
I can only tell it’s far more realistic to have mechanical turbulence than not. Can always be improved but never romove or limit it.
As i’ve said about gusts as well. I know it’s far more realistic to have gusts than not. Can always be improved but never remove or limit it.
Same with thermals.
Actually same with everything in the simulator.
To me it’s the jarring nature of them. It’s like getting broad-sided by a train.