Unrealistic Water Physics for Float Planes

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41

I would have to say… feels like the “friction” of water is less than the “friction” of air.
Compare Air to Liquid to Solid dynamics. Could be a clue to the developers?

To some extent, Land - Solid - overrides even Wind, but we can experience cross winds where the wheel - friction is stronger than the cross wind.

Water should be more than wind but less than land.

42

This is UE5, but it’s one of the better vehicle / water interactions I’ve seen.

I’m assuming the water improvements that Seb talked about at the beginning of the year are targeted for FS2024, which is fine… esp if it looks like this :wink:

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43

Just here to revive an over year old thread because the float planes are still messed up on the water since some update that happened in the last year or two.

Just a note that this shakiness did NOT happen a year or so ago. If I need to create a new bug report to capture this then I’ll do that, but this is the most relevent thread I have found.

Notice how the plane shakes a lot when it reaches the top of it’s floating bob, when you start to taxi and takeoff, the plane sits at the top of the water and shakes violently in an up and down pitching. The XCub float experiences this bug the most, but I believe it effects all float planes.

This is with Clear Skies weather preset btw.

44

I tried landing the Dornier Seastar in stormy weather. The water was quite choppy, and I found it nigh on impossible to keep it in the water after landing, even though I was only a few knots over the stall speed when I did. It launched back into the air 2 or 3 times before finally coming to rest in the water. When the plane slid forwards on to dry land this rocking motion continued, which makes me think this tipping about is kind of baked in.

The water appears to have next to no drag on the plane, and its motion doesn’t seem to coincide with the movement of the water, or perhaps it is exaggerated.

It’s also possible these conditions are entirely unsuited for this kind of plane to land in, I don’t really know.

45

Is it possible this thread could be updated to be for msfs-2024?

I recently got my float plane rating IRL, and now I see major areas that could be improved with the water handling (this is all with the amphib x-cub):

  • In the sim there is practically no feel of being “on the step” or “off the step”, and I’m not sure if there is any difference in water drag based on pitch attitude. Being on step means that the float is mostly out of the water and the plane is practically gliding on the midpoint of the float.
  • The water does not have enough drag on the aircraft when the plane is “off the step” (the plane should be a lot slower at idle taxi due to the floats displacing so much water). It’s very hard to stop the plane on a small lake in the sim, but in real life it’s no big deal. I believe our shortest landing may have been less than 200ft once we touched the water. Once you cut power and the entire float sinks into the water, the plane slows surprisingly fast.
  • The quick up-down nose oscillations when going over tiny waves is not noticeable in real life, the floats dampen the small waves and not much stick input is needed.
  • In the sim the plane seems to stick to one particular attitude when on the water. In real life there is a lot of play in the pitch attitude that can be achieved with the elevator, even at slow speed. The play in the pitch attitude is actually how you find the optimal water plane attitude, and then achieve faster takeoffs, smoother landings, and to taxi on the step.

I’m trying to find a source for the info, but from what I remember in the training: If the wavelength (peak to peak) is longer than half the length of your float, then the plane will not be able to ride on top of the waves as it goes and you would not be able to maintain control of the plane. Looks like the waves are too big for the plane in your video.

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46

msfs-2024 tag added.

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47

Just got my float rating as well. What a blast! The skills needed to fly floats safely are easy to master but very important. I got the rating because a friend is a CFI in Alaska. I didn’t want the rating. But now that I have it I’m thrilled with how rich the experience was. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Modeled properly, it would be a thrilling addition to the sim.

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48

Thank you both for your IRL insights.

I think the one problem is the water isn’t really water, being a layer suspended just above a ground layer, and has very little depth to it. For example, the Blacksquare PC-6 will scrape its floats on the bottom of the ocean! :slight_smile:

The floats can’t really sink too far into it, it’s “draft” I believe. Some do it better than others, but it has always felt like a bit of kludge to me. It’s fine if the water is glassy, but at a certain point it just doesn’t seem to behave like water, though it does look like it.

49

I wouldn’t ask that they get into hydrodynamics, really. The sim is complicated enough. A little scripted behavior would go a long way. Have a 1) Pitch attitude (high) for lots of power off step, 2) Pitch attitude for idle off step (displacement taxiing) 3) Pitch attitude (low) for on step that varies slightly with speed, 4) HIGH drag for operations off step. For extra credit, floatplane sailing would be super cool!

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50

But I do think proper hydrodynamics are the only way to get proper water physics in the sim. It’s not going to make the sim any more complex for the user by having realistic water simulation. However, you will have to use proper techniques for water operations to even be able to take off or land safely. We also need a way to moor the plane, that is also currently lacking in the sim.

51

I agree that a heuristic approach to making float planes more realistic is preferable to waiting 1+ years for them to do something like hydrodynamics.

I would like to see this on the next feedback snapshot for MSFS2024, because the amount of votes should have earned it’s spot on the list.