Update on MSFS Team competing with 3rd party Devs

@N6722C these apps don’t need to load onto the XBox-X, or be aquired from the XBox-Store… they can be installed elsewhere, because SimConnect allows for a network connection… that’s the whole issue.

Example: when there is no native XBox version of the LittleNavmap program… what to do, if you need your aircraft position to show up on the map, having LittleNavmap on a tablet, or laptop ? How would VATSIM be able to access your aircraft…

(your other remarks better be answered by Bishop398…)

OK, so then you would have any non-ms-store authorized App, connecting and communicating with the X-Box, via whatever this new Network Connection method is.

If that’s the final goal – sounds good !!

I don’t know who would answer those other questions or provide that documentation, but I was NOT suggesting or requesting that anything about this should be coming OFFICIALLY from WT – they have enough on their plate :slight_smile:

Well, as long as only MSFS answers, why not ? the program runs somewhere else… if I access some server with Putty, my Putty program does not need any certification from that server, other than being compliant to the https safety layer. It keeps the protocol, and I’m responsible for sending the commands.

The TCP protocol is always directed to ONE recipient. UDP is not. There will always be certain vulnerabilties… e.g. what if some PC using UDP broadcasts would impersonate an XBox device ? having my PC sending over account data or e-mail addresses in return ? :cat: No network protocol is perfectly protected… the new module should take these scenarios into account, good software needs to do that.

Some questions can only be answered by the people who are going to release. Bishop398 is involved in that and I’m gratefull he is here… and curious what is needed to just let it work.

Of course… for you little would change (you don’t use above tools ? ) my question is… what will be the differences ? I don’t really worry, I always have my laptop to run MSFS on. But I would prefer to be able to run full DX-12_2… and use LittleNavmap… and further develop my own SimConnect hobby projects. Now I can do that on a PC, because there are plenty of SDK examples… Simconnect is documented. Can I do the same for XBox ? Developers (the official ones) have these questions too. It is part of this topic.

I can’t say what method will or won’t be used because a new connection protocol hasn’t been designed yet. If and when it is, we’ll let developers know in the new SimConnect version documentation at that time. As with all of the other SimConnect APIs, the usage would be published publically.

-Matt | Working Title

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Thanks for your answers. I get the picture. I wish you and your collegues success with connecting the dots ! Can imagine, complex choices need to be made with a Console, which is essentially a TOY, a consumer product, not a general purpose PC. It needs to be protected.

I would not say these are toys, as the Xbox x is in reality a pc with a specific video card, memory, and hard drive. Yes the OS is different, but from a hardware, it is very pclike, and yes I know there are differences but is more pc than they use to be.

As this thread has completely derailed already, just for the record: LittleNavMap is not using the network protocol of SimConnect (which has already been declared legacy - as discussed elsewhere already).

Instead LittleNavMap is using its own network protocol (it has to, because LittleNavMap is a multi-platform application, that is it also runs on macOS and Linux - no SimConnect client library exist for either of them). That’s the exact reason why you run a “LittleNavMap server” application on the (Windows) machine where FS 2020 is running. And that server then talks with FS2020 over “local IPC mechanisms” (pipes, IIRC).

Cool down. We’re talking MSFS for PC (and XBox) here, that is Windows. Not about other sims and other operating systems.

Alex sais this,

Little Navmap comes with a SimConnect library version 10.0.61259.0 (FSX SP2 / no Acceleration) and does not require a separate installation of SimConnect.

The included SimConnect library is compatible with all FSX and P3D versions as well as Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020.

Looking forward to your link telling us LittleNavMap does not use SimConnect via TCP localhost (?)

Dude, I never said that LNM is not using SimConnect in the end! In fact, I literally wrote that, quote myself:

“And that server then talks with FS2020 over “local IPC mechanisms” (pipes, IIRC).”

Yes, I was shortcutting it a bit here, but with “pipes” it is immediatelly clear (to people who work with SimConnect) that I meant the communication of the client (e.g. LNM) with the server (FS 2020) - and that part is hence over SimConnect!

Look, I was actually referring to your claim that “if SimConnect does not (continue to) support the network part of it then 3rd party apps like LittleNavMap (sic) would not be possible”, and my counter-argument to this statement was that LittleNavMap is not using the network aspect of SimConnect in the first place.

That’s all I wanted to contribute here.

As far as I understand it, littlenavconnect is used for remote connections (from other platforms)… And littlenavconncect uses SimConnect.

So you run MSFS on a PC together with littenavconnect… then LittleNavMap (on e.g. OSX) connects (or talks) to that server (which uses SimConnect).

So take away SimConnect and LittleNavMap is gone. On every platform.

You’re wrong, Steeler, this is just a complicated topic. Because I WAS speculating, Bishop corrected me, read the above before you judge.

Euuhm no, for PC it will work… SimConnect will stay in MSFS (read Bishop !) and the connection for PC is TCP/IP… that will work also after 27-Juli. This is a complicated topic… there are 2 aspects, SimConnect and the network method.

No, I give you your exact quote:

“I listed some 20 popular addins above, currently depending on SimConnect, partly freeware, partly payware… using TCP. many of these addins, especially VATSIM and Littlenavmap and possibly many more I am not aware of, are used by the PC MSFS community. Can these addins be adjusted to UDP or whatever protocol easily ?”

And my argument remains exactly the same: LNM is not using the network part of SimConnect, so it is totally irrelevant (for LNM) whether that part is now declared “legacy” (on PC) or not even available on XBox!

Those apps use their own application protocol, to communicate with their own server (which, yes!, does communicate via SimConnect - but locally - with FS 2020 in the end).

How such a server application would be installed on XBox? Don’t know. But that’s an entire different discussion than the one about SimConnect offering itself a network API.

and accused (me?) of derailing things. This topic is not derailed,

You are confused, again: no one accused you in particular of derailing this thread! I said that this thread is derailed in general - simply to give an excuse for myself to keep adding to the off-topic discussion about SimConnect, specifically its missing network API on XBox.

And let me remind you of this thread’s topic, it literally is in the title, exact quote for you: " Update on ASOBO competing with 3rd party Devs"

The original topic was about world and scenery updates and whether Asobo would “take away the work” from 3rd party devs.

So yes, this thread is very much derailed already :wink:

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If LittleNavMap is not using “the network part of SimConnect” how would it connect to MSFS from an external computer ? You accuse me of speculating, I don’t see any links supporting your claims. As far as I can see, XPConnect (the lib used, written by Alex) is just a multi-platform communication library, not some magic tool. If there is this direct memory interface for local use (it could be there), that’s a solution for XBox too, but Alex would have to port his program to XBox native and go through marketplace approval. All other solutions are external connect, and that is using a normal network protocol.

" The setup procedure is different for local connections and remote (networked) connections to a flight simulator (Remote Connection).

Little Navmap can connect directly to a flight simulator running on the same computer. The Little Navconnect agent is needed if Little Navmap is used on a remote computer."

https://www.littlenavmap.org/manuals/littlenavmap/release/2.6/en/CONNECT.html

(still looking forward to your links :slight_smile: )

I don’t think they are competing. I think they are much more fixing their broken systems to provide some basic level of functionality. Of course it would be great if Asobo would be default provide fully functioning FMC / autopilot / NAV systems and I would certainly welcome it. But even if they get just the basics right, I will be happy. I notice, I have really lowered my expectations as to the basic out of the box functionality of this “sim”.

As far as competing with 3rd party devs goes; if these 3rd party plan to release broken / non functional junk, then I would rather call it them competing with Asobo, rather than Asobo competing with them.

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Please keep replies directed toward the topic at hand, not at users. Thank you.

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Agreed … There are 3rd Party “Professional;l” developers, and there are 3rd party HACKs, just out to make a quick Buck, before they disappear into the woodwork.

Obviously, Please do not confuse the two – there are a number of very good 3rd party Developers, who will always be able to produce more elaborate & complex system, than Asobo does for the core sim.

As for the Hacks, the sooner and more they are exposed by the community, the fewer community members will be taken advantage of by them.

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There is an article on FSElite about this.

do you mean –

A good article with reasonable comments and observations.

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