Voting system is flawed

I did not know that… but a notification as proposed by TheWetChef here would be nice ! I think that would add quality to the Wishlist and Bugs section… you get involved, so you are being informed. It may be an incentive to participate…

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Wouldn’t it make sense to create ONE dedicated page, where ONLY the issues are shown, that the mods filtered out, sort of like a simple feedback snapshot page with all issues/wishes listed, without any ability to comment, and people can vote there directly. And only if a wish/problem was fixed/added it’s gonna be removed. That way we would be sure that everybody has seen everything, and votes remain up all-time, without any way to influence visibility on the forums. Just an idea.

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This is actually a really good idea.

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You should get a system notification if a topic you’ve voted in has been closed. IIRC the notification is a plus icon.

I totally agree with you.

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The problem with it is that whilst it may be valid at a staggering superficial level, it’s not that helpful or constructive and ultimately just comes down to being snark. :thinking:

More on-topic, votes are fine but they don’t adequately deal with really dumb ideas - you can’t vote against them. :laughing:

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Could work… you could e.g. have a Wishlist section for members… the mods select the topics from there and move these into the voting section (the real Wishlist).

btw I don’t think it is a good idea to eliminate comments. Sometimes people confirm the issue… putting more information !

That would be a question for the current mod team, as I am no longer on it all I can do is talk to the technical limitations and/or mod effort required. I can’t speak to policy or if something will happen.

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Whilst the Voting System for Wish List items (when threads are not closed without reason…) is “OK”, using Votes to prioritise Bugs is extremely redundant and poor. I think I recall a dev Q&A where they mentioned they don’t look at the Votes much when dealing with Bugs, which renders the question why have them in the first place?!

Anyway, just get rid of the system for Bugs, keep it for Wish List but allow threads to remain Open - Freedom Of Voting!

It would require changes in the Forum software… as you explained above. I wonder if there exists a solution that does not require changes in the Forum software…

No. You can’t vote against (unless an opposite position has its own thread)

But you don’t have to vote for them.

Either way. As long as either of those vote threads can be arbitrarily closed before it has run its course…

See where I am going here?

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The system is flawed because the product is flawed. Voteable topics allow for comments to follow, and the MSFS team obviously do not like the comments that follow, so the vote gets closed.

Rather than close the votes, they could just make MSFS a flight sim (not a photography game in pre-alpha) that is reliable and stable. Squash the bugs, and leave the eye hospital awareness kind of stuff out until it becomes a flight sim for every kind of flight simmer.

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I’ll respond here and say I’m the one that closed it and should have left a note as to why and got distracted by other things - apologies! Generally, a note will be left, even if it’s a duplicate.

While I understand the feedback of the topic (which is the frustration over issues that arise during updates making it look like no testing was done), I do not believe it is a valid and reasonable wishlist item for the section for the developers. The feedback is very much passed on to them, and I don’t believe it is a feature request. However, the concern of issues arising during updates is very heavy on their mind as they consider factors regarding larger Beta test pools, internal staff resources, cadence of updates, and how to deliver better and better updates in the future.

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I’m struggling to see such closures as ‘arbitrary’.

Some threads I see closed are driving a cart through the forum rules. Others are along the theme ‘fix the sim’, ‘bug fix the sim’ which again are valid, but how many of them do you need… :wink:

So, its not valid or reasonable for customers, who have paid for a product, that is scheduled to get updates for about another 9 years, to expect (or wish for) these updates to be adequately tested?

If there were little or no evidence adequate testing was required and needed, the testing topic would never have come up. A years worth of updates are regularly problematic; of course the voting topic is reasonable and valid, it may “sour the stomach”, but unreasonable and invalid? No.

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We’re a year on, this is school room stuff that they should’ve had in place from Day One (if not before). The very fact that we’re still seeing flaws getting through each and every update suggests that lessons are not being learnt no matter what lengths Asobo go to in order to have a Beta Test Pool of any size.

What’s needed is a far better QA/QC Team who are actually capable of reporting back to the Devs with new issues that didn’t exist before, then the Devs actually listening too them and taking action instead of Updates being allowed to be released with many broken items where they were fine.

Locking forum wish lists for something that a lot of us feel strongly about does not set a good precedent, Asobo need to not only listen but understand what they’re doing to the Sim every time an update is released - they need to see the Sim through Our eyes.

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The Wishlist and Bugs topics are for specific things, not general complaints about some speculation about testing. It’s not a bug… and it’s not a wish for ONE thing. Keep in mind testing takes time… and if a release is coming near… developers can only solve that many things. The purpose of the wishlist section is to let the members of this forum prioritize things. You get this kind of lists…

I think not so many software products exist, that count customer votes and put a planning next to it. Quite a privilege for the members/customers here !

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Yes absolutely and I agree totally with you.

A very fair point and one with a great deal of merit :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:

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It is ONE thing - expecting updates to be updates, not downdates.

I don’t speculate that testing is not adequate - it absolutely is not adequate, read:

Adequate QA/QC testing should be priority 1, but since it clearly is not and has not been for a year, it clearly needs to be wished for.

How the MSFS team accomplishes this (with many things or many ways) is up to them, but it is a singular and basic problem.

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The real issue at hand, is that some of us are really concerned about the direction the sim is taking.
There are SO many issues and bugs to fix/features to add, and now developer manpower (that is already lacking, according to Jörg) needs to be used to push stuff that completely goes against a “Pc first” mentality as was constantly promised in the very early months of pc launch, namely striking deals with Hollywood movie studios to provide some superficial fighter jet add-on that nobody really needs right now(and maybe there will be more of that arcadey stuff in the future?), except the people playing on the Xbox, because they expected a “game” with missions and other stuff that doesn’t add anything to the simulation aspect, and to keep them on board, some cool and hype fighter jet addon comes in handy.

I already know that nothing of special value will come with that add-on. It’s probably just a shiny, visually polished set of aircraft that lacks most of the things us “pc first simmers” would like to see in a sim. There’s still a ton of work to be done on the Flightmodel, there’s a ton of work to be done to get the visual quality back, there’s a ton of work to be done to make the sim a true simulator for not just VFR, but also IFR, and that currently isn’t the case yet. Why push things like superficial add-ons for coolness factor, when the core of the sim is full of issues and not matured? Most of us probably know the answer, but it’s important to know that a thick sense of “betrayal” hangs in the air for many, and THAT is the true reason for many of the complaints.

The bugs are important, but the direction of the sim and its true intentions are what many of us really care about and on that front, all I see is still silence and the promise that “some of the things” will return for people with very capable rigs. I’d be really happy about some clear and transparent communication from Jörg and the devs that the main goal is still the PC first mentality and not so much the Xbox version and arcade add-ons. I’m saying this will all the respect possible towards the Xbox users and without any hate. Jörg said that their biggest goal is “accuracy”, I really, really hope that this will remain the focus going forward and that Xbox arcade escapades will be kept at a minimum. We were promised a “PC first experience”, now it’s time to deliver and reassure us of that.

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