VR Busted after latest MSFS Update

User Support Hub Virtual Reality (VR)
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@JohnnyDioxin I think we need to be careful and distinguish the issue I’m describing from the general performance issues and solutions running the sim in flight. What I’m experiencing and others have confirmed is that the sim will sometimes start in a ‘bad’ or ‘poor’ state, where even the menu animations and transitions are stuttering.

There is a screenshot in another thread on the bugs forum showing the sim sitting at 10fps in the menu screen - this is the issue I’m having (on two different machines). Exiting and restarting a few times can sometimes resolve this. Switching into and out of windowed mode a few times can also sometimes resolve it.

The sim can get itself into this state when switching to VR mode and/or when entering the settings page. It can also start in this state.

Example: I launch the sim, menu transitions are smooth and fluid, I enter the settings page and everything starts chugging from that point onward. Or - I launch the sim, menu animations are smooth, I switch to VR mode and everything including headtracking falls way way down to <10fps. It doesn’t happen every time.

Locking the framerate via Oculus debug/OTT is a general tweak that can help with stuttering and smooth things out, I used this on my old system prior to the UK update. Seems like the Steam equivalent helps too.

There was a tendency for the sim to fall into this ‘poor state’ with 10fps in the menu (worse in game in VR) before the UK update, but after the UK update this is happening almost every time I run the sim.

Something is going wrong when the sim is initialising its graphics/rendering and it is a completely separate issue from the general performance problems that can be addressed by tweaking, changing settings and limiting fps.

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@CodeLoran69 @JohnnyDioxin
I’ve been involved in trying to assess this specific question (and settings in general) privately with two other forum members with G2 and 3090. Preliminary tests don’t find any clear winner between 461.40 and 457.30, nor any particular setting favouring one or the other. However it might be, just might, 461.40 might have an edge on AMD CPUs whereas 457.30 with Intel CPUs.

Since you’re having better results with 461.40 this makes me wondering what your CPUs are?

@SimonJones7660
I’ve never encountered this bug so early in the game session, but it has happened before in the middle of a flight in previous versions on my test system (not yet since UK update). I’m attributing this to CoherentGT stepping on its own toes and one solution, working sometimes, was resting the mouse cursor over a UI element like a TAB bar icon or an ATC popup window field. It is not always working though.

However if this is happening very often for you now with WU3, the game is no longer using the same DX11 “present” mode and this could be the main factor causing CGT (no the union for French people!) to fail syncing with the main window event loop maybe? (@Jummivana : something for Asobo devs to maybe look over)

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@CptLucky8
Appreciate your response hugely, thank you. I ran into this issue 3 or 4 times in a row on my older system and rolling back to earlier drivers seemed to snap MSFS out of this state. Then I updated to the newest drivers (at the time) and MSFS still stayed happy for a few sessions until it happened again.

It looks like an initialisation thing. To have it happen on two completely separate systems is a concern. The only common factors are; Xbox pass version of the sim, Oculus Rift S.

One other observation that persuades me it’s an initialisation thing was a post here from a user who would exit/enter VR mode a few times and sometimes enter/exit fullscreen/windowed a few times before the performance ‘clicked’.

Another observation was prop ASW flicker that I would get sometimes when I had the fps limited via OTT. The sim would be smooth and fluid at 30 fps ASW on but the prop flicker would be there sometimes when I launched the sim and not others - clear skies, various setting changes would not make it go away, only exiting and restarting the sim (sometimes a couple of times) would clear it up.

I have reinstalled the sim again, will roll back drivers and launch it, then update drivers and launch it. I’ll try VR mode both times.

I am genuinely convinced that there are folks on here suffering from this issue who have mitigated it using tweaks and limiting fps. It’s only because I have had the sim running beautifully in VR for the first few hours of installing it on my new system before hitting this problem again that I am so certain it’s a hard bug. For those first few flights I had no OTT or Oculus debug running at all, I didn’t need it. I was running 100% TAA with high clouds (in the Cessna) and was pushing the odd setting up during the flight. Whole thing was stunning with occasional stutters during taxi (I can live with that).

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You’re welcome! I’m just trying to assess some of these issues in thinking what it is doing behind the scene from a code standpoint, but it is hard an exercise when not having the source code so I can only try thinking about all this tech fitting together as if I’d do it myself (and I must be wrong often I’ve no doubt about it).

Nevertheless, CoherentGT is meant for UI first and foremost. They are using it for EFIS and system logic as well though, and this I believe is a clever idea but I’m really not sure how far the Coherent GT integration and API permits fine syncing with the complex game update loop when using it both for UI and in-game rendering at the same time. Furthermore CoherentGT is most likely rendering using its own render engine (it ships with a DLL handling this separately) and it might pose some challenges to sync both engines (CGT and FS2020).

Having said this, it is also possible these hiccups and low fps attributed to CGT (as seen via the the fps window ‘manipulator’ frame time) be caused just because this specific part of the CGT API is wrongly executed (wrong calls from FS2020) or feed with wrongly formatted data (wrong attributes defining the interactive mouse regions) causing the whole engine to crawl sorting the wrong data out. These are just general ideas about what could go wrong.

2 Likes
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i7, 32gb RAM, RTX2080Ti, all latest MSFS2020 updates and Win10 installed.
G2 starts ok but very quickly into the flight head tracking is slow and I get black right and left sides of FoV. Performance starts to judder and eventually freezes. In developer mode frame rates are erratic and max GPU memory fluctuates from 7gb to 11gb but always seems to be maxed out regardless of settings.
Have tried all of the suggestions in the forums. Changing MXR settings, openXR and registry settings to cut down the number of virtual monitors all to no effect. Have the same problems even when all graphics settings in the sim are at their lowest in clear skies.

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Perhaps take a bit of solace that it’s not a problem with your system but with MSFS. I trust they will fix the issue soon as it has stopped all game play for me.

Mack

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I cannot say I have better result with last NV driver 461.40 vs 457.30, it just seems to be as stable as 457.30, and I tested also nearly all versions in between. So I stick with this last one, I don’t really like to stay on a previous version :wink: and for the record I use it with my I7-10700K auto-OC (MSI bios GameMode) and RTX3070 OC too. Saying that, for now I still resist and didn’t launch the sim after the 2 days of frustration after the UK update :wink:

2 Likes
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My current Experiences:

I agree that the Performance is much worse now after World 3 Update with VR , compared to how worse it has been before.

My Settings

I am playing MSF with RIFT S on a Gigabyte RTX 3080 i9 10900K with 64 Gig and a good SSD.
The System is very new and a clean Windows Pro 64 Bit is installed.

Steam and Oculus BETA is off due to the white Flashes Bug.
I mainly do not use any tweak Tools.
Settings are a mixture between High and MID, nothing Ultra except Clouds.
I tested settings on MID which does not affect anything at all currently.

Launching MSF 2020

Now a Game launch either results into a “kinda” working VR Game Mode, or to a entire unplayable, messed up stutterish VR Gameplay Mode.
Since MFS 2020 takes sooooo long to load up fully, even with a High End System and SSD, this is such a pain and major Gameplay Killer Experience for me.

I mostly realize the horrible VR Performance now using all the Updates Locations like “London” Heathrow Airport which is so bad performing now that i am speechless .
Even in Cockpit it stutters like hell with mouse behaving like 1 frame a sec.
WTF

Audio Issues with Steam
I realized that if i launch the Game using Steam ( not SteamVR ) and switch in Game to VR using TAB and STRG i have no more Audio alltime now anymore.
It only works with Audio if i launch the Game in Steam VR which is way horrible Performance then.
I cannot blame Steam VR at all here for Performance since all my VR Games run amazing using SteamVR.
Its just MSF 2020 messing all and everything up here.

My Opinion with 3D VR Support from Asobo Studio:

It is so sad to realize Asobo do not care at all about optimized VR Quality Performance and
NVIDIA Drivers Support for RTX 3000+ Cards in this SIM since launch…

Where is RTX 3000+ GEN Cards VR Driver Support?
The RTX 3000 GEN Cards perform worse than a GTX 1080 Card in VR, which is sure, a NOGO.

I have lost my enjoyment to use MSF 2020 in VR due to that horrible VR Performance with a High End PC and
I am acually thinking of skipping MSF 2020 for some months now since this is no way a VR Game Experience i should expect
with the System i am using.

Why should i even load the Game up currently experiencing this mess alltime?

2 Likes
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MSFS long loading times?
Where?
This is by far the fastest loading sim I own…and I own them all.
MSFS loads in 1/4 of the time it takes my FSX build to load.

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2 MInutes 30 Seconds here with Steam MSF 2020 Premium Deluxe Version
to even launch the Main Screen wih a RTX 3080 and a i9 10900K and a NVMe SSD

“alltime”

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I load both main screen and the flights in under a minute each.

1080ti (Stock clocks)
8700K(4.7OC)
32GB Ram with the XMP overlock
Steam Edition MSFS on a Samsung 840 SSD
Fully Updated Windows 10
Latest Oculus PTC and Nvidia Driver
3 mods in community folder

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Haha you lucky
This makes me even more mad now :wink:

Look

Asus ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) Performance Results - UserBenchmark' - www_userbenchmark_com
Asus ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) Performance Results - UserBenchmark&#39; - www_userbenchmark_com1884×2310 394 KB

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This is exactly the problem I’m seeing, it happens with a 1660ti system and on a 3070 new build.

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Reverb G1 and Nvidia 2080ti VR fantastic. Far better than I got in Xplane 11.

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My CPU is an i5 9600k - so Intel. (edit - and I’m using an RTX2080Ti and 32GB DDR4)

I’ve also not encountered any performance issues with menu screens - that’s a new one for me.

Why I think the framerate lock is so good is because when I was monitoring the framerates with fpsVR they were up and down like a yo-yo. I think this instability leads to various issues.

I just can’t believe how good the scenery looks having actually turned all the settings down, switched off AA and so on - where before trees and buildings - in fact all objects were glimmering and ‘speccly’, now they are just great to look at.

The only issue I have now in VR is one I’ve had all along and is difficult to describe. I tried to record it but failed - though I will keep trying, the only way being “through the lens”. It’s with propellers - mostly in poor wx conditions, but it can happen just in clouds or with a light background. I don’t know what the effect is called - a sort of shimmering with high glare - it’s very unpleasant on the eyes.

I don’t want to use Quest because I have Index working so well - but I think I will try and see if this is present on that headset, too(as long as it doesn’t turn out too much of a pain to set up!).

edit_ btw I have to say that yes, performance dropped quite a bit after the UK update - but I haven’t dared to try flying in the UK itself since. I visited Crete just for a look as I once flew there a lot in FSX - and the performance there was so good I haven’t flown anywhere else since! That was in December.

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Standard edition from Steam and it takes 2:04 - or did just now - to get to the loaded main screen UI.

On occasion it stops halfway through for what seems an age - but not always.

1 Like
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You might want to try out some community mods specifically for the propellers:

There are two problems with the propellers: the 1st one is everything behind wobbles because of motion smoothing (the mods help curing this), the 2nd one is TAA is not coping well with the moving image either (the mods help curing this a little).

The reason for the 2nd one is because the algorithm is based on measuring pixel displacement from one frame to the other so that it can estimate what pixels to “blend”, eliminating the edges aliasing (to keep it simple). You can actually see the TAA buffer in dev mode, there is an option for this in the view menu.

The problem is the same algorithm will also compute a motion vector for pixels moving not because of the camera changes, but because they are actually moving pixels (cars, props, windmills, etc…) and in this case, they don’t exclude these moving pixels from the motion vector which is trying to just smooth everything out.

This is highly annoying with cars in VR (see explanation and video):
TAA is transforming road traffic into ghosts (self-cancelling moving pixels)

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Hi,

this is exactly what I am thinking about since the last Update. Performance in VR has become worse even at lower settings. I am using a relativ new System ( Core I 7 10700k, GTX 3070, 32 GB RAM, Nvme SSD ). I´ve lost my Enjoyment since the UK Update.

1 Like
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If you use the launcher mod that fast launches MSFS, the World Update apparently caused it to repeatedly generate space bar presses into the game, causing issues throughout.

The author has apparently released a new version. which solves the problem.

Although this may not be the cause for any of you, I thought it couldn’t hurt to make sure that it isn’t.

I don’t use this launcher and can’t even remember what it’s called, but if you are using such a mod, I’m sure you will. :slight_smile:

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Is consistent smooth or fail the case with others, mine varies attempt to attempt? (G2 + 3080 ftw3)

i can tab into vr and its pretty smooth next moment if i control tab out and then go back in, its a horrendous mess (on screen display showing only say 10-12 hz, and red instead of 30 and blue)?
Im not sure if this is a biproduct of the update for just the sim or the forced latest windows major update that came along with it in my case?

1 Like