Wait! What if we don't have to use OTT? Quest 2

I’ve been using Quest 2 with virtual desktop recently, but the release of v27 in beta persuaded me to try the link cable again. I was running OTT with the usual combination of parameters as everyone.

I got fed up with the tinkering and just booted it up without bothering with OTT.

Honestly No difference really, and if anything a bit smoother. I just did the longest trouble-free VR flight I’ve ever done. My test run is through Boston at <1000 feet. If I can get decent framerate in that situation then it’s a “pass” for me.

Is anyone really getting any value from the OTT step?

Device setting: Refresh 80Hz, RR=1.1, RR 4224x2128
No OTT
MSFS render scaling=100, TLOD=100 and other setting mostly medium
My Rig Ryzen 5 3600, 32GB, RTX 3070

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Well, you can gain some fps with the fov crop. Also, afaik, only with ott or the command line you can force asw30, which i found is better than leaving asw on auto.
For example: i could do max render in oculus(1.7), with 72hz, ott force asw30 with fov at 0.85,0.85, and msfs mostly medium high, very smooth constant 24fps reprojected, same videocard as you.

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There are many features of OTT that won’t set unless you follow specific procedures and double check they are set. Many people will just use it and assume they are getting the benefit while in reality the setting is still at default. SS and FOV restrictions are two very finicky settings that can easily not be set even when shown to be set.

There are other settings that persist even between booting your computer. You might want to check your ODT settings for the link cable settings - bitrate etc. I would guess these will be set as per your last time using OTT - even if it was weeks ago.

While everyone is aware of ASW not everyone appreciates that it causes judder as you both go into ASW and come out of it. When you fly in high density areas your almost guaranteed to be in ASW all the time - hence it feels smooth to you.

Forcing the Oculus HMD to run 45hz with ASW disabled will guarantee that as you exit that high density area you won’t get judders as your frame rate jumps back up above 45hz.

Note 45hz simply means half frame rate, so if your using CV1, it’s 45, if your using Rift it’s 40 and if your using Quest 2 it’s half of what you set 36, 40 or 45 and the soon to be 60.

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Personally I found the OTT a total faff to use and generally pretty unstable. One of the reasons I’ve gone back to using the virtual desktop wi-fi method is that its generally a bit more stable and consistent. You can’t push parameters as far as you can with the link cable and OTT (when it works!) but at least with the virtual desktop method you can fire up the sim and generally get into VR for a flight.

Having said all of that I find SteamVR and virtual desktop have issues of their own which is why I’ve all but given VR a rest for a while. I’ve got an RTX 3080 and a Ryzen 5 5600X, so a pretty good set up, and there’s still so many performance issues for me.

My line of thinking now is that I’ll come back to VR is 6 months, or certainly when I hear there’s a marked improvement to VR performance and stability consistency. Yeah the potential of VR is amazing but its not the be all and end all of my enjoyment of the sim. Certainly not when I’ve got to spend so long battling with it.

The thing that I’m conscious of are stories here from others that it took years for other flights sims to get stable decent VR performance. Ok they don’t have the full power of Microsoft behind them but even so it shows how cutting edge the tech is.

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I have been using the Rafael Santos ingame panels pack. It has an oculus panel that replicates the OTT functionality in a game panel so you can change most of the settings in flight. Its easy enough to use to make it viable to change the settings as you go depending on load. The ability to switch the performance monitor on and off ingame is a godsend and makes performance profiling much easier. Costs 10 dollars and is an easy win.

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I have same gpu as you. I fly GA and don’t really have any issues, pretty smooth and stable. Not as rock solid as xplane but xplane does not have the visuals of MSFS. I don’t do voodoo fixes just a few settings required and off you go. Been at this for years and MSFS has taken many many searches and a long time to understand, but now it’s been stable for weeks.

All that said though some have expectations beyond the current capabilities of today’s systems. This is not their fault, its more the people in the know misleading them.

VR allows people to “be there” but at the cost of blurry visuals. For some - like me - that’s well worth the sacrifice, for others they can’t live with not seeing crisp clear images.

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Definitely all true. I think the other issue is you can get a glimpse of how good in could potentially be. With both the Quest 2 and Reverb G2 you can crank the resolution of the headset right up to maximum and see what it looks like but sadly even with top level current hardware you kill performance.

I think thats contributing a lot to the levels of frustration for quite a few people.

That’s a fair point. Easy way to get some fps.

I accept that maybe to get a perfect experience then tweaking OTT might be useful and there are some edge cases as you describe. I’m happy to compromise and it doesn’t seem that OTT provides a game changer in terms of quality/performance.

Yeah, I hear you. Sometimes I just kick-back with Ultrawings and just fly! What a great game!

This is good, thanks for that.

I agree. I’m happy to compromise just for the immersion. I’m just questioning whether for me it’s worth bothering with OTT. I’m not a super-tweaker and happy to compromise. And I don’t think OTT is worth the bother.

Another frustration is just the lack of reliability. For example I sat down today to fly and I got the “couldn’t find headset” error. Why?! It was working fine last night. I then look… and something has over-written the registry with another runtime. Not sure what did that. Probably me, I guess. But still, it’s just an effort sometimes…

The Tray Tool works just fine. It works by the exact same means as the Oculus Debug Tool, which is part of the core Oculus installation. Both of these tools are just simple graphical interfaces that submit one-time text-string commands to the Oculus runtime when you change a setting.

That’s the important part to understand – both of these tools just submit commands when you change values. It’s the exact same thing as if you opened up the command-line input for the Oculus runtime and typed the commands manually and pressed enter. Also, they do not continuously send these commands – they are sent once when you change a setting, and that’s it.

The real issue is with people using these tools and not knowing what the settings do or how they work. The biggest advantage of either of them for MSFS is (1) being able to use the FOV crop which gives a significant performance boost without any visual impact and (2) being able to lock ASW to a specific value to keep it from dithering between different interpolation rates, or disabling ASW altogether.

You can skip using either of these tools completely if you want. They are basically just ways to get “under-the-hood” of the default way the Oculus runtime works so you can force certain things to behave in a slightly more efficient way. You can get a little bit better performance and smoothness by using them, but in order to see those improvements, the in-game settings and others need to be reasonable too. If the sim is already choking the system to barely being able to hold a choppy framerate, and you lock ASW to 45Hz for example, you will not see any benefit at all.

One of the best features of both of these tools that few people seem to know about is the numerous performance overlays that can be displayed inside the headset. These are transparent overlay plots that directly show you your app frame rate, your performance headroom, your motion latency, whether or not ASW is active and generating frames, the current render resolution, the pixel density scaling values… All of those things I just listed are available in the various HUDs which are selectable from either the Tray Tool or the Debug Tool.

For tuning your app performance, the Performance Overlay HUD is absolutely essential. It lets you see on a plot with actual numbers the effect that your changes make to the app frame rate and also the available computing resources for VR.

On the Performance Headroom plot, if your headroom is greater than 0%, and assuming the VR app has been built correctly, then you should be able to hold a frame rate equal to the full refresh rate of your headset. In other words, if your headset’s native refresh rate is 80Hz, and the performance headroom plot is consistently above 0%, your VR framerate should be a stable 80fps.

If the performance headroom plot shows values consistently between -100% and 0%, then you should be able to hold half the refresh rate of your headset. Example: if the native refresh of your headset is 80Hz, then with performance headroom between -100% and 0%, you should be able to hold a stable and smooth 40Hz. *NOTE that this is critical for ASW to work well. ASW does a fantastic job in properly coded VR apps that don’t have frequent low-performance spikes. But if the app holds performance headroom of >-100% most of the time, with frequent spikes dropping WAY lower (which MSFS often does…), then ASW and other motion smoothing algorithms can’t do their job effectively and it still ends up a juddery mess.

Lastly, if the performance headroom plot is below -100%, then you are in “this is running really poorly” territory, where the best you’re going to be able to do is try to hold something like 1/3 or 1/4 framerate relative to your headset’s native refresh rate. This is what many (most?) MSFS users are having to do, and is a lot of the reason so many people are not pleased with the result. Yes, you can make this kind-of smooth, assuming you aren’t looking at fast-moving terrain, aren’t moving your head quickly, etc. etc. - but understand that this is a VR band-aid. When things are running this poorly, your motion-to-photon latency goes way up, meaning head and controller movements feel detached from the VR world.

That’s the gist of it. MSFS needs a lot more optimization to really deliver a 2021-level of VR performance. The problem is not VR itself – there are many, many VR games that are amazing and run incredibly well. VR flight sims tend not to fall into that bucket, though, because they are not VR game developers. They are flightsim developers, who are trying to shoehorn VR implementation into their apps.

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Thanks for the thoughtful reply

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No no it does not simply re-submit on change. Some settings are set once on start of the service, if you change then you need to restart the service. The service is not able to always be completely reset off the menu item “restart service” so you then need to go kill it via Task Manager or by a complete reboot. FOV and SS both suffer, fixing ASW is also flaky.

In addition other settings are set once and dont need setting again. Bitrate, Distortion Curve and Encode resolution.

Now re-read the first paragraph there are a lot of checks needed to ensure your actually getting these items set. This for new people to VR is where it all goes wrong and this forum is full of VR misleading statements of “Fact” or overselling of features that leave a number of people binning their OQ2 headset , or worse still buying G2 expecting it to be faultless and high res in comparison.

Dont get me wrong its a great tool, but a sweeping statement that it works after you change a setting is simply not correct, you need to understand what to look for with the change you just made and understand how to check its actually been set.

Very few of the settings that can be applied require a service restart. ASW lock, supersampling, and FOV multiplier do not need service restarts. If you don’t believe me, turn on the overlays I mentioned above and take a look at the ones relevant to each of these settings while you change them.

The only settings in the Tray Tool or Debug Tool that require restart of the Oculus service are the render resolution settings specific to Link.

Supersampling settings, when used with Link, typically need the VR app to be restarted, but not the Oculus service nor Oculus app. Again, you can confirm this with the Pixel Density HUD overlay.

When setting the FOV crop values in the Tray Tool, you have to click the button to the right of them (I think it says save or apply) for them to be sent as commands. And yes, almost everything the Tray Tool (and Debug Tool) do are indeed one-shot text string commands to the runtime. They are just sinple GUIs which send those commands for you. Every single setting that you can change related to the runtime in either of those tools are also available at the command line of the CLI debug tool. Typing server:help (I think that’s it, going off of memory here) in the CLI debug tool will list every user-settable command available.

ASW behaves strangely in general with Link and MSFS due to a frametiming conflict. You have to open the Nvidia driver settings and, in the app-specific profile for MSFS, set v-sync to ‘Fast.’ If you don’t do this, then the app frame rate fluctuates to such an extent that ASW never actually locks even if you command it to, and if you disable ASW entirely it will be unable to reach the full refresh frame rate regardless of available headroom unless V-Sync is set to ‘Fast.’

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Interestingly VR Flight Sim guy recently released the below video where he says the new beta has made a massive improvement and he also doesn’t bother with OTT now

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I have a similar setup to him, and it seems that what the latest beta version has done is introduce a bug that locks the frame rate to 72hz, irrespective of whether its set to 80 or 90hz, so it gives ASW a slightly easier target of 36fps to hit. In many scenarios with the rift s, it struggles to hold 40fps for the reprojection to 80 hz so can be a little juddery, if it cant hold 40fps, it often drops down and locks to 26 fps which doesnt seem as smooth. With a 3090 and top end cpu, you can maintain 36fps in most scenarios so the experience appears smoother. I think Oculus inadvertently locked the quest 2 into the sweet spot for flightsim with the most powerful setups. I have a ryzen 5900x and at low level in vr, im CPU bound to 40fps, with fairly constant drops just below - which causes the stuttering. With a 3090 you can crank the settings and resolution by quite a surprising amount before you become GPU bound if you are only going for 36fps.
If the DX12 update can improve the CPU performance just a little to make 40 or 45fps more consistent, it will transform the experience.

I see, thanks. I’ve recently ordered a 3090 pc with a 10850k for quest 2 so I guess I’ll be CPU bound even more than you, hope the 3090 isn’t completely wasted vs a 3080 (not that I could find one of those in stock!)

Once the sting in your wallet fades I’m pretty sure you won’t regret the 3090. I think for this game you really do need more vram than the 3080 if you want to run at the higher resolutions the quest supports.
I think the 3090 has a bit more overclocking headroom too if you are trying to wring out every last fps.

Plus if you play any other games you’ll be in heaven. I play onward and can supersample up to crazy resolutions and still hit 90fps.

I tested the v27 Oculus PC app beta yesterday, and it does indeed appear to fix the frametiming issues I keep mentioning in my posts here. To be clear: you can now leave the Nvidia driver settings at their default values for V-sync, and MSFS (and X-Plane too) will now reach full refresh frame rate if you’ve got the performance to do it, and ASW locks to stable intermediate values as it’s supposed to. This fix does make everything feel more like it’s supposed to, although it still isn’t quite up to the low-latency responsiveness and fluidity of my old Rift CV1 headset.

That’s the good news. The bad news is the v27 beta has indeed broken higher refresh rates, so no matter what you choose, it’s stuck at 72Hz. I reported this to them, and I’m sure others have too, so hopefully it gets fixed soon.

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