What does a 5000 ft airport look like from a 1000 ft agl altitude and about a mile away?

It is!

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You’re right. It’s a challenging airport. I tried landing twice with 2-3 passes each time and both attempts ending in a crash. The first one I ran out of runway and landed in the water. The problem is the approach on Rwy 31 (it’s like KHAF which does not allow direct or linear approaches). Also, the runway is narrow, probably like the other roads in the area which confused me at first not having examined the airport location first.

Maybe the solution is to go around the mountain. I’ll keep this airport in mind and visit it several more times. I want to try landing under different weather conditions too.

Also, the problem I have is determining distances without instruments. I guess I just need more practice using a familiar airport.

Is your scenery for the airport available for download?


You can also use time to judge distance of course.

For example if you are doing 175 knots that is pretty close to 200 MPH - meaning you are covering a mile every 20 seconds or so .

A good reminder. Thank you. This reminds me of a documentary I saw once about Charles Lindberg’s trip across the Atlantic. He just used a watch and a compass. Also, maybe I should read about Amelia Earhart’s failed attempt. The problem is it’ll all be guesses as to what actually happened. I’m not sure if it’ll be worth the time.

Besides knowing the airport geography, pattern, notam and weather, you must know the specific how-to of your plane. Without knowing the precise settings for each stage of flight and condition you will never be able to make a perfect and reproducible landing. By settings I mean mostly flap/speed/rpm/descend rate during your pattern work. If you Google around you find this kind of information on most flying school websites for the usual training aircraft (Cessna’s/DA’s/Piper’s/etc…). Also RL checklists may be helpful as they provide you information to get the plane in the correct configuration for each stage of flight, plus usually also reference speeds.

Personally I find it a bit strange to practice pattern work with a fast moving turbojet before mastering the basics in a typical training aircraft. I guess that’s why IRL we all started with a 152/172 or similar :wink:.


Yes, It’s freeware here. Hope you enjoy it. It has a dependency if you want better lighting, make sure to check that out as well if you don’t already have it. Here is my scenery link: Hangar Studio 713 @ Alpine, Wyoming 46U » Microsoft Flight Simulator

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I’m able to walk away from plane crashes. Always. It’s the only thing that’s guaranteed besides death and taxes :grinning:

On a side note. Since we are talking about starter planes to help you learn how to fly. Why not give my new payware a go. It has everything you need to learn how to fly. Steam gauges/ Avionics/GPS/Auto Pilot and you can get your virtual Pilot Multi rating lol _ check it out! Camair 480 Twin Navion Official Release Trailer - YouTube
And here’s my website - It’s on sale still at Gumroad Release Week discount - HANGARSTUDIOS713

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So, I’m a little confused. I’m not sure what the mountains have to do with things at KHAF? The pattern, as you said earlier, has the downwind legs out over the ocean, so the mountains are a non-factor as the runway is parallel to the mountains, so they never factor into your approach per se.

But, if you chose to fly your downwind leg on the land side, I’d fly it at about 1.25 mi from the runway at about 1200 to 1500 ft in the Longitude, and fly out and turn base for about a 2 to 3 mi final, maybe even 4 to 5 mi final approach, until I became comfortable with my approach, and then I’d shorten my turn to final to about 2 mi probably.

I’m not sure what “overshooting the final leg” means? If you’re coming in too high on final, make your turn to final further out. The important thing is to determine what altitude (and speed) you need to be at when you turn to final…, there are rules of thumb for this that I don’t remember off the top of my head (altitude vs distance from runway). If you really want me to do the math for you, I can, but, it’s easy enough to do knowing that the approach angle is 3.00 degrees… for instance, at 3 miles out, you want to be at just below 900 ft when you turn to final…

Do you know if they added fluid dynamics to both variants of the 152?

Im not aware of any 152 besides the default.

Asobo released two variants of the C152, the regular and the Aerobat aerobatic version of the C152.

And, no, I don’t know the answer if they added the “fluid dynamics” to the C152. The only plane I know they did it for was the C172 (G1000 I think). I haven’t kept up after that.

I’ve been practicing some more and I think I got it. Btw, the pattern is towards the mountains and not to the ocean.

What do you do to measure the mileages when you are in the downwind leg eg. 1.25 from the runway?

With regards to the 4-5 mi final approach suggestion, I’m wondering if this is ok in real life given that the direct approach is restricted in KHAF?

Sorry. I meant when you end up misaligned to the same heading as the runway heading. I’ve seen videos in YouTube where pilots do an almost 90 degree turn to final and end up with the runway exactly in front of them.

Thank you. I checked it out. I’d buy it but it’s not my type. I’m limiting my payware purchases of planes in MSFS to study level business jets like what is available in P3D ie. Learjet 35A and Falcon 50.

Kudos to you for developing the plane. I’ve previously checked the SDK in MSFS and amazed at the math involved in developing planes. More amazed that MSFS is enabling devs to develop planes for relatively low prices. A suggestion, you might be thinking of it already, make Paypal a payment option?

Thank you. It greatly improves the default. Good choice of airport to develop for also. It’ll be a nice stopover when flying cross-country. I’m amazed at how close a structure (house?) is to the runway. I tried to check it out, but Google maps was no help.

Sorry, I got myself turned around on the pattern direction you are correct.

Be that as it may, I don’t know where you are seeing that a straight in approach is restricted?

The only restriction is to “avoid” overflying Pillar Point AF station, which is to the outside of the flight path in either direction. It does not lie under the flight path to 12 at all, you could come in on a 20 mi approach and be ok… nor does any flight path to 30 take you over Pillar point. a 5 mi approach to 30 does take you over the city of Half Moon Bay, but I don’t think that’s a problem, a 4 mi approach starts at the shore.

IOW, I don’t see any restrictions on straight in Approaches to KHAF listed anywhere? Can you point me to this restriction?

Oh, so, you’re traveling so fast you’re “missing” your turn to final. No big deal, you can always get back to the approach.

Flying any airplane involves getting to know the speeds at which to fly, and when to begin turns to get to where you want to be. The more practice you do, the more precise you’ll get.

Here’s a couple of links to procedures (I couldn’t quickly find a POH). I imagine there’s some other YouTube videos out there on flying the Longitude.

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Excellent question because I just tried to find the source of that info and I can’t find it now. This is a good example for following official publications instead. However, I’m pretty certain I read it somewhere with regards to KHAF because I thought it was a new term I need to learn and I was wondering how it is different from a plain ‘simple approach’. Back in my mind, I thought that a straight-in approach might have something to do with pattern flying only. I’ll continue looking though cuz it’s bothering me that I can’t find it.

Thanks for the links. I hope you can share info if you find official info from Textron. I know the plane is new and the company is selling the POH for at least $600. I’d be interested in limited info only eg. about the fuel gauge, bus-tie, ground spoiler switch.The sources I’ve been able to find are all second hand and based on personal experiences (I call them ‘opinions’). There seems to be differing opinions on exactly how to start the plane. Some say press the Start button first but other say do the Run button instead.

I’m a little late to the party here… as usual and a lot has already been discussed and no lie I didn’t read it all.

But – Jets don’t fly the pattern according to the normal piston rules… They are usually higher and run longer legs. So if you’re trying to stay tucked in close at 1k feet, you’re wasting your time.

You can probably at least double everything… 2k feet or higher, 2 or 3 mile final, etc.

COULD you fly it closer and lower? Yes, probably if you’re proficient in the plane. But it wouldn’t be ‘normal’ as you’d be running over 172’s all the way around your pattern.

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Exactly. See previous posts in the earlier part of this thread regarding the differences between playing the violin vs cello (one small, the other large). A skill in one is helpful, but being good at both requires lots and lots of practice (I don’t think practicing 10,000 hours in real life applies to piloting).

The specific problem with fast jets in airports like KHAF and 46U (see references to it above) are obstacles. In both these airports, very very large and hard to avoid immovable objects --mountains! :grinning:

I was racking my brains looking for the source and I found it!

Check the real-life video below at the 3:30 minute mark:

How to fly into Half Moon Bay - YouTube

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