I just learned about FSHUB/LRM and that it even works with Xbox. With that being the case, is there some technical reason that Vatsim, Beyond ATC, Say Intentions and the like couldn’t also work with Xbox? LRM provides the plane’s location, and isn’t that all you really need?
I understand that there would need to be a client through which to communicate back to the Xbox pilot, and that could not be run on the Xbox (although Discord can be used in parallel with MSFS). But speaking for myself, I‘d be perfectly willing to keep a laptop or tablet at my side to handle the communication duties.
Is there some technical show-stopper I’m overlooking? It seems the market for such a thing could be pretty sizable with PlayStation coming on board. IDK if the PS has the same walled sandbox that XBox has, but I suspect it does. So all those new pilots might also be in the market for something like this.
For this to happen the external application would still require a connection to data within the sim that consoles typically do not expose for external use/APIs. This is unlikely to change in the near future, unfortunately, so your best bet is to continue fighting (through bug reports and wishlist items) for a better default AI ATC service.
What do they need other than the current position of the aircraft? I’m not familiar with LRM but from what I’ve just read briefly, it does provide additional data beyond just the location.
I know you’d probably need to file a flight plan somehow, but that could be accomplished through a separate client as well. The Xbox can already import from the web-based flight planning app. Maybe that could be used.
Even that is not available externally with the exception of a very small number of 3rd party payware aircraft that have it built into their product for use by Navigraph.
Additionally, if ATC can’t control air traffic, it’s a bit pointless - so it would also need to either be able to control default air traffic or inject its own (the latter being how BeyondATC and SayIntentions AI work on PC).
Okay, I did a little more digging and it appears that LRM is not supported on Xbox like I thought. Flights are reported manually once they are completed. So I see that obstacle now.
However, I could imagine that a developer could enter into an agreement with Microsoft to provide a feed of data from the Xbox to support this. AFAIK, it could be read-only. Anything going back to the pilot could still use an external client.
There is a precedent for this. Back in the day, there used to be an app that could track a Halo game in real time, if I remember correctly. This was in Halo 2, before MS purchased is from Bungie.
I agree waiting for the in-game ATC is still probably more promising. But I’ve not really seen much improvement in the past year. The window is still limited to only 4 choices visible at a time and cannot be resized as it could in 2020. And the text still scrolls to the top sporadically, the controller talks over you or is totally silent, you get directed to climb to FL when 3 miles from the airport in a 172, etc. It’s just a mess. If it only worked as well as it did in 2020, I’d be more satisfied. The only real improvement from 2020 so far is the use of different voices.
Ah, that makes sense. I hadn’t considered that. Unless you wanted to limit traffic to real-world, and even then, sim ATC would only be able to route you around it, not be able to impact it.
Many of us would be willing to run an external client for the audio.
Hopefully this discussion will get some potential developer to start thinking that there might be a real market for this, especially if it could also be ported to the PS.
So you mean run the sim on Xbox and the client on an external machine that links to the Xbox? That would be very convoluted, and I doubt it would ever be done.
No. Provide a read-only API connection from the MSFS servers to the ATC platform so that they know the aircraft’s location.
All 2-way communication between the controller would then take place over some application on an external platform.
Isn’t this what basically happens in real life? ATC gets a location via radar or ADSB for the aircraft, but doesn’t send anything back to the aircraft directly. Instead, they communicate back to the pilot over RF.
Same scenario - provide location data via one method, communicate via another. The only link between the 2 platforms is the pilot.
This is the part that, as far as I understand it, is not feasible due to security restrictions on Xbox. Navigraph is a great example as they do not support flight tracking for Xbox on their external applications unless you’re using a very small number of payware aircraft that have some sort of workaround hard coded for Xbox. The fact that this workaround has been employed only a handful of times is, to me, the exception that proves the rule that this type of communication out of the console to an external third-party platform is just not possible, or at the very least, practical.
I question that it’s not possible or practical. I myself am a software engineer. I can think of many ways to implement this.
I think it’s more a case of Microsoft doesn’t want to do it, or no one is asking if they can. MS allowed Bungie to do it for Halo 2 back before MS bought it. So there’s precedence for it. It would just require an agreement between MS and the dev.
If it’s a read only API, what’s the risk to Microsoft if someone has data on aircraft within a sim? Especially if they can also make money on it?
If it’s an overhead issue, they could make it something that gets activated via a setting, so that they don’t end up sending data for people that don’t want it.
I’m just trying to think out of the box. Sometimes the reason you don’t get something is because you never asked for it.
Microsoft, as in the Xbox creators - not the MSFS team, doesn’t want it done, which is why it’s blocked.
The sim has been out for 4 years on Xbox. Users have been asking to pay for services that do this for 4 years. If it were possible in the current state, it would be done already.
You keep saying it’s not possible. The fact that it’s already being done in certain instances belies that.
So what we’re left with is Microsoft doesn’t want to do it. Or perhaps lacks incentive to do it is a better way to put it. If a dev with enough clout were to approach them with an offer, they might be convinced to change their position.
As you stated, users have been asking for this for 4 years. Users ask for a lot of things. What incentive does Microsoft have to grant the user’s demands when it only means more development work on their part?
What we need is to convince a dev that there is a business case for this and then let them approach Microsoft with a proposal.