Pretty much the title of this post. To all the PC users reading this: this is in no way directed at you. I was a PC user since MSFS 98 through 2005. Life happened and I’m on Xbox Series X now. MSFS wouldn’t exist without PC users and you make up the backbone of the community so please believe I have nothing but respect for the PC users here.
That said:
Xbox users are underrepresented in these forums. By default I assume everyone posting is a PC user unless they indicate otherwise or I get to know/recognize them as a Xbox user which is fine. The issue is that we don’t have our own space to voice our concerns, and the needs of Xbox users are drowned out by the larger PC community.
A perfect example of this is the egregiously flawed “voting” system that (“apparently” although that’s debatable) is used to triage bugs.
Exhibit A: There is an issue for Xbox users where the mouse completely freezes several minutes into any given flight. It’s the definition of game-breaking and PC users would riot if they had the same issue for more than a day. The front page would be nothing but cries to get it fixed. This has been known/bug logged for 4 months now and on the last QA not one developer could speak to it. We were told that they (the Devs in charge of this sim) “hoped” it was being fixed in SU7.
Spoiler Alert: It wasn’t. Despite getting hundreds of votes, the bug is still lost in the bugs list. It didn’t even make the top 24 on the last weekly snapshot.
Xbox users also face a lack of third party content. We’d pay out the nose for some of the freeware that PC users get. We have next to no real world liveries. We don’t have access to dev mode or replay or VR. We’re even forgotten about/excluded from weekly activities that PC users have had access to.
Asobo needs to start treating Xbox users as actual users and not a magical revenue stream of Fortnite users popping in to do immelmanns in a 747. We exist. We’re here, and our numbers will only continue to grow: especially with Microsoft’s push for Gamepass.
Please give Xbox users our own forum and bugs list. Thanks.
Must agree, I’m a PC user, but quite often, particularly with people who are new to flight sim, it’s difficult to know how you can help people. There’s an assumption that’s it’s just a game like Forza and that it’s the same on Xbox and PC, so when you try to help them you actually end up making things worse by talking about the PC side.
As for some of the Xbox issues I’ve read about, my gut feel is that many of these (particularly the peripheral issues) actually relate to the Xbox team, and I think that’s why nothing happens quickly. It’s the same with the marketplace, were developers submit updates and wait weeks or months for them to appear. Having a bit of an inside track on how Microsoft works, the chances of the flightsim forums or developers getting the Xbox update team to do anything quickly is somewhere between slim an nil. They just don’t work that way. I’m not saying it’s right, far from it, but it’s a very siloed structure.
Great point. I think separate forums would benefit the PC community as much as it will the Xbox users.
As it is now: we have a very interesting situation where we have real world pilots and/or lifelong aviation enthusiasts (many with real world flight time and ground school) mixed with actual children who aren’t old enough to realize MSFS isn’t meant to be a sequel to Ace Combat.
There’s a huge, disparity unique to this type of software and it needs to be addressed so we can have better, more productive conversations.
PC users are more vocal. They also have more experience with the sim too. However, they are not “much larger”. Two different third party developers have hinted that sales on Xbox are 5 times the PC community. And of course, people will say “but pc users can buy direct from the content developer”. The one developer was taking that into account when the statement was made.
But here on the forums, I do find that XBox users seem to be less than half. I’m not sure if that is because Xbox users aren’t used to spending times on forums or what.
That said, I think separating is a bad idea. The code for MSFS is all the same code for the two platforms. PC users are comfortable with solutions like removing directories or files in the community folder, editing config files, etc. XBox that is quite impossible to do. We can’t access the reserved space for MSFS in anyway. So community suggested solutions should be made in one place, so if a suggested solution is to modify the file system, XBox users can make other suggestions that work for both platforms. For example, bush trips. The solution for resetting a a bush trip on PC is to remove the save files. On XBox, there is NO solution. If you get to a point where reset is the only option with a bush trip on XBox, you are currently locked out that content forever. So I have made a suggestion that would work for both PC and XBox users. If we aren’t one community, solutions will be what is easiest to do on PC. It may not be possible on XBox. Is that where you really want to be? Locked out of more features and content than we are now?
It’s only by working together that we can provide a great environment for both platforms.
I agree… If the VR community can get its own bug tracking list, then certainly the Xbox community can get one as well. I know there are some bugs that impact both PC and Xbox, but there are also Xbox only bugs that will never get upvoted to the level that a PC bug gets.
And how many of these children are on the forums? Cone on, that is basically saying we need to separate the intellectuals and professionals (PC) from the children (XBox) which is a huge distorted generalization.
On these forums I don’t see that kind of varying population. On Facebook I do, but I see it both on the pc side as well as the Xbox side. I’m on XBox. I like to think I’m an asset to the community. I always try to offer objective views, help further diagnose problems, etc. You will find on XBox retired pilots, etc.
But the stereotype that XBox is just children will continue if we decide to separate the forums. Because yes, it will be seen by the PC side as it was necessary to separate the children away from the intellectuals and professionals. The original poster suggested it so XBox users would be heard more. They won’t. It will be like we are out at the kids table on Thanksgiving.
The only way to make this a better place and better sim for everybody is to stay together.
A Pilot is a Pilot per the Code of Conduct, meaning we on the board do not distinguish or call out differences in Community, especially by platform. Tread lightly folks.
This is new territory for FS but most other software games or commercial have subsections for platforms. This helps users of a particular platform more easily find information that’s related to their use. It’s not discriminatory in any way, it simply helps people find the information they need and allows support to be more targeted. It’s easy to say it’s the same code base, but the platform is uniquely different.
When handling such a number keep in mind that there is a very (!) big difference in availability. What PC users can get in great quality from addon websites (it‘s just SDK work after all) is being forced through the marketplace after an increasing time and level of desperation for xbox users. I would have assumed there were hardly any console users at all if this number had been equal. I certainly don‘t know any real numbers, all above of active users, but handle these numbers with care, they are valid for actual sales but not for potential.
The one developer was taking into account from all sources, including their own site. But in Xbox we are forced to buy addons, versus PC has freeware that people may choose over payware instead. So there may be some of that factor. How much larger, it doesn’t really matter. We as a community need to get away from that concept. I only brought it up because, well, I hate to say it, but some PC users like to try to say that they are much more sophisticated and more knowledgeable and much larger than XBox, so frankly, in some Xbox users minds we start thinking like we really ARE insignificant. And most of that is just so they can drive the direction of the sim. We should be treating each other’s as equals. The Xbox community, whether PC users like it or not, is larger than the PC community. PC users suggest solutions, or proposed ways to execute new features, that totally can’t be done one Xbox. Content developers suggest solutions that simply just don’t work for Xbox. Like for example, the New York bridges does not work with samscene New York. The solution is to remove the two directories for the conflicting bridges. Great for PC users. Totally doesn’t work for XBox. Separating the forums, more solutions and features will be developed like that, instead of a solution that works for both platforms.
So like I said, I don’t care what the percentages are. We all purchased the same sim. We all are as committed to it, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. We are all equals here, with equal voices and equal rights. Who has the most pilots, who has the most sim years, who has the most users, who spends the most, etc etc etc all that doesn’t matter. We are all users of the same sim and we all have equal voices.
They want to force some sort of equality between the platforms but that just isn’t working, the XBox can even come first in the list but they need sub forums if just to cut signal to noise for the customers of both platforms.
We can still share screen shot, activities and other non-platform specific forums just fine.
I totally agree. After more than 15 years with the PC versions of MSFS, I have tried to use the Xbox X as my main environment to use the simulator.
The user experience, the doubts and unfortunately the problems, although common in many cases, are not mutual. That’s why I think that at least one chapter in the forum should be dedicated to the XBOX.
A separate top 25 list of bugs/wishes for Xbox would be a good idea.
I can see why they want to keep it all together as lots of the issues are across all platforms and also not to split the community into two camps but some changes need to be made.
100 percent agree . As a pc user and an Xbox user there seems to be too much confusion going on especially for the newcomers to understand. Both platforms separate is the way to go
I do agree, a separate bug tracking system for Xbox, yet keeping the forum together otherwise is the way to go. Keep the community together, but the bugs separate. PC user here.