Man I always place my default camera in a way you can see at least the important instruments. Irl yeah you want to keep your eyes out of the cockpit but without any physical feedback I find glances to especially vertical speed and the artificial horizon very important to get the information I can’t feel through my a** like you could irl.
Plus I mean on the 206 especially you really need to be able to see the torque and turb out temp unless you’re flying incredibly conservatively or empty, they’re so easy to exceed.
I dunno, I mean everyone has different preferences plus setup may play a role, I sit quite close to a 27” 4K monitor, but how is something like this not just the ideal default to see everything you need to see? Being so close I couldn’t see the instruments would wig me out even when I’m not using them
Excuse the combat style flying. Like I said I have the DCS itch
I just keep the virtual instruments up on my screen in cockpit and chase cam so they are always showing no matter where I look. This helps with VS, RPMs, and throttle.
When it comes to things like temps and manifold pressure, I tend to do that by feel and memory until I have a good chance to look at the cockpit after the hardest parts of flying are done.
100%. I forgot about the virtual instruments tbh, I don’t like them because the numeric value constantly changing makes me constantly fiddle with the trim lol. On both the steam and glass indicators close enough feels close enough.
Definitely true about temps, pressures and rpms but I still just like to see them. I’m only a week or two in to seriously learning helicopters and my learning strategy for new aircraft which I’ve leaned into more on a whole new type of aircraft is always a couple super basic conservative hops with mostly pattern work and short cruises till I am comfortable with the basics, and then I do some longer cruises to explore the systems, and after that I completely send it and push all the limits to really learn how it reacts at the edge. I’m on step 3 currently with helicopters in general. Best way to learn on an a sim imo, would be in real life too except like many crashes happen.
Thanks! Altitude really affects this one, it’s a dog at just 3500 feet but at sea level it’s a hoot. But if you want to play with the limits you need to keep an eye on the pressures constantly, lots of popping in and out of the yellow if you’re doing maneuvers.
I think we both got into helicopters at around the same time. It has been fun going through the learning experience together!
And we both live in the high desert! So the 206 is struggling in the dry summer heat! Just making it across the Great Salt Lake is a challenge right now.
I really thought it was bugged at first because it actually wasn’t outperforming the r22 in any regard the first times I flew it from my home airport. But then I looked at the performance tables and checked the actual density altitude which was a few thousand feet higher than ground altitude and learned that the 22 has a very derated engine specifically to maintain consistent performance at higher altitudes and err yup 206s just don’t do so well at higher altitudes. I was surprised because I really thought they were commonly used for heli skiing so I looked it up and turns out they’re not for that exact reason even though other similar size turbine helicopters are popular choices.
I have learned SO much from helicopters in just a couple weeks. Yeah, the 206 is just not that powerful. And it really struggles at altitude and in the heat. Thank YOU for figuring out why for me. Saved me hours of research!
And the R22 is quickly becoming one of my favorites to fly around 3-6000 Feet. A challenge, but if you can go around the mountain, it will get you there!
Ok so get ready for some real nerdery because I went and learned about turboshafts recently and I think the power isn’t really the problem, ok sure it’s not a power monster but like at sea level it has plenty the clip I posted was at gross when I started minus a decent amount of fuel I’d already burned off, that’s no wimp and the drop off as you go higher is pretty stark compared with many other turboshaft/props. I think with my limited knowledge of turibines(I’m an engineer but not a mechanical one) the reason has to do most with the more primitive single can combustor as opposed to the more modern annular style combusters like a in the PT6 you find in basically every small or medium sized turboprop aircraft and many rotorcraft as well. It’s easy to exceed the torque limit in the 206 when you’re low and you have to pay attention to it, but I find it plenty powerful within the limits when I’m worrying about torque and not temp. turbine temp is what makes me not able to fly in this aircraft.
Everyone here probably has some basic understanding of a turbine, sucks air in the front, compresses it, and then catches it on fire to make it expand to more volume than it was before we compressed it very quickly in a small container so it blows out the back to just push the plane or be recaptured to spin a prop or rotor while in both cases recapturing some energy to keep compressing the air in the first place. Can style combusters are less efficient/more lossy meaning they produce less pressure for the same amount of burning air so when there’s less air they’re producing a lot more heat to make the same volume of pressurized air compared with more modern combustors.
You just saved me SO much time looking for a place to learn all that. Makes perfect sense.
I remember back when IAS broke my brain when I was first learning. The speed your plane thinks it is moving. Not the speed it is traveling over ground.
Now Density Altitude really comes into play with helicopters. The altitude your aircraft thinks it is at above sea level, not its actual altitude.
But ultimately it is the inefficient turbine compression that gets too hot in the 206!
Probably being pedantic here but turboprops do not necessarily suck air in at the front and blow it out the back like a jet does.
The M250 in the Bell 206 being discussed actually routes compressed air from a forward located gas generator to a hot section positioned at the aft end of the engine which then passes forward again through the power turbines exiting from the middle of the engine.
The popular PT6A we see in everything from the Kodiak to the King Air and the Bell 412 is actually fully reverse flow intaking air at the back and exhausting at the front.
In both cases they are split shaft free turbine designs meaning the gas generator and power section are linked only by airflow and can spin independently. Usually in these designs they are also counter rotating.
If you are having trouble getting your head around the principle behind turboprops this tutorial on the PT6 (which is NOT the engine in the 206) is very well explained:
Never apologize for pedantry in a flight sim forum.
That 206 has taught me so much about helicopters, and in a couple cases I first blamed the addon for my issues before learning the science and realizing my problem made perfect sense!
I never in a million years thought it could get too hot to fly one in my home town!
And over the last few days I am realizing I have not heard many helicopters at all, and I live by a major hospital!
Well the density altitude part of the problem (wings props rotors are all less effective) is not just helicopters. I had friends in a c172 run off the end of a runway in PNG because the density altitude had changed after they were already fueled and loaded.
However the high Density Altitude causing engine stress and overheating is more a helicopter specific thing.
I mean yeah I do understand the concept and process, just simplified it a lot. Within the context ‘front’ is where the air comes in and ‘back’ is where it goes out. Air gets sucked in, air becomes compressed, fire happens, air comes out the back very quickly spin turbines that capture some or all of the energy depending on if they’re just providing energy to keep compressing air and generate electricity or also having all(edit: most) of the energy recaptured to drive something else. Great explanation though!
I still think that the combustor plays a big role even though also fundamentally helicopters will have the performance degrade much faster than fixed wings as the density goes down, it seems pretty extreme though on the 206
Totally. I just almost never have to worry about DA much in planes I fly in sim so it is one of those things I just didn’t worry much about until helicopters
Since I am in the Rocky Mountains I usually try to fly close to home which means planes need to do 14,000 feet easily. So DA almost never matters unless I try and fly the Edgley Optica up here!
Helicopters are really changing how I think about the skies around me. I had no real respect for how they manage at altitude and in heat. It is different math, temps, and tables I focus on these days.
Just to add my two cents here, the FlyInside helicopters seem to be the only ones that simulate engine operations at altitude properly.
Last year I did a comparison where I took all the helicopters I had back then to the top of Zugspitze, Germanys highest mountain at around 9000 feet. The 47 simply could not reach the top, and the 206 just succeeded with minimum fuel and a single pilot, all with default weather. The non-FI helicopters simply flew up to the top with any issues, because they did not simulate the loss of power and lift at altitude.
Slightly off topic, the record altitude achieved in a helicopter is 42,500 feet:
Considering how dangerous a high-altitude flight in a helicopter is, you might be wondering, “How did Fred North fly to 42,500 feet?” It is a reasonable question. Let’s take a look at the details of his record-breaking flight, and how it was achieved.
Fred North’s Record-Breaking Flight
In March 2002, Fred North’s epic flight took place in an AS 350 B2 “Squirrel” helicopter.
Fred North was a very experienced helicopter pilot. He had 8,500 helicopter flying hours, 5,000 of which were on this helicopter type.
He planned the flight carefully, deciding to do it in Cape Town’s ideal weather conditions. He was also above mountains with frequent updrafts, which would help with the high-altitude flight.
Moreover, his helicopter was specially designed to break the previous altitude record. It was 200 kg lighter than the normal configuration of a Squirrel helicopter. Fred North wore a compression jacket to cope with the thinner air at altitude, and he had oxygen available as well.
Even so, the flight was not easy and was fraught with risk. Fred noted that the higher he went, the slower the helicopter became. It got to a point where he needed the rising air currents over the mountains to fly at all.
After an hour and a half, he decided that it was time to descend. He had beaten the previous altitude record, and had had enough!
Then he had an engine failure on the way down. Luckily, at high altitudes, there is plenty of time for an engine to restart at a lower altitude.
But Fred North never managed a re-start.
He performed an engine-off landing, and said after the flight: “I will never do it again.”
During the extreme heat in Death Valley last month, all of the helicopters were grounded due to heat and were therefore unable to assist with medical evacuations.
I know those two FI helicopters will be making my top ten this month. And likely the Cowansim Robinson R22.
And I am quite liking the SWS RV8. Very much like their other Vans offerings but with the updated G3X and just a more stunt/fighter plane like setup. Still cruises efficiently like a Vans, but then you can drop some smoke and do some loops! Of their Vans releases, which are all fun, this is easily my favorite. Priced right for what it is. Looks and feels like the best of SWS… just not a real deep addon.
I have noticed one in the last three days. Tonight. Well after dark when it was cooler. Was not flying fast. I have really gone my whole life without realizing how heat impacts helicopters.
