A new generation of (flight sim) pilots coming?

I think there is definitely a new generation of flight simmers waiting in the wings (pun intended) and I think the decision to release MSFS on a relatively cheap home console will have played a big part in this, massively lowering the cost of entry, with subscription services like Game Pass making it more accessible still. When my kids have friends over, it’s often the first game they ask to try when they see the ‘box’ under the TV!

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Exactly how I got excited about aviation. A friend of my Dad’s had MS Flightsimulator 95 and I became addicted right away at 12 I think. That’s not a new generation but happens constantly. We had a huge gap of new flight simulation development, the “old programs” like XPlane and P3D were okay but not very user friendly towards people who had no clue what to do at what point. It was much more difficult to get started, all above P3D made it hard. MSFS aims towards getting new people on board and does that very successfully with its interactive and easily accessible user interface and the (for beginners) great offers of additional content. It’s not a new generation I think, rather some new blood and a fresh breeze.

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a big :+1: and my canonical example is Flight Gear. Though it’s an open-source flight sim, the support forums are, (shall we say), less than beginner friendly.

I went on the developer forum and suggested that they include a way to make the game more “accessible” to the first-time flyer and I got roasted! Left them behind and “shook the dust off of my sandals” when I did - and never looked back.

XP is much more user friendly as it, (like MSFS), has its quirks, but the advice is friendly and the answers are good.

I’ve got a friend who’s a retired F-111 driver that built a Vans RV-7 several years ago. He’s active in Young Eagles and also takes his grandkids and nieces/nephews flying and they always want to do “one more loop” or “one more roll” than they did before. He mentioned the other day that they had “discovered” MSFS. So maybe they’re on their way to having an aviation future, too!
Regards

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Who said that, you or them? :wink:

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The choice is between spawn cold and dark or spawn on the runway, ready to go.

I normally choose the runway to reduce the setup time.

There should be an option (the default) of spawning at the hold short point.

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I wouldn’t make it an option. The only spawn point should be on the hold-short.
It’s been wished for many times, but I guess it’s not important enough to get any attention.

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That’s the correct place, but MS want it a point and go game for Xbox. Taxi to line up would be unacceptable to what MS perceives their market.

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Perhaps.

But this is not the correct topic / thread to discuss this for the umpteenth time, and I am sorry that I mentioned this issue in the first place :wink:

So now back on topic… share your experience with „the next wave of young pilots“ :slight_smile:

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I took my, then 14 year old, niece out for a flight in VR 18 months or so back. She’s now back home in France where she’s been out for three flights with a flight instructor (all through her school! … not an option I had in the UK schools of the 80s’ - I’m very jealous.) She’s also looking to get into software development although that was something she was already interested in but she adored VR and left saying that was something she wanted to try and pursue.

The technology of today is astonishing for someone of my age or older and it’s so exciting to think of where younger generations can take it - I only hope I’m around long enough to enjoy some of what they bring us….stability and fewer bugs would be great :innocent: :wink:

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All - Have been exposed to aviation most of my life. Uncle Helped start DAL in Monroe, LA after WW-II and he got us passes so we could fly and visit them from home. Played with C. E. Woolman’s grandkids in backyards near where they lived. Went into USN and fist duty station was aviation squadron. But I actually never wanted to fly as I knew did not have math skills to do all the computations necessary, or the logical process (ADHD-bad when young). But later on, neighbor who was pilot for DAL (built his PC for him then) showed me an ad for FS-95 and said get this I will show you how to fly. Hooked ever since. Knew older fellow from work, and he was on earlier versions in the 80’s and loved it, smart electrical engineer, with very bad eyesight, but he could fly that PC game just fine.

These “sims” have evolved very nicely to date with more work but ok for now. I cannot speak for the younger folks, not sure they want or like to read printed things, but older folks want something to see and use as desk reference, (Still have a huge dictionary-as 99% of all the words are in it) hence a manual on things inside this sim. XP has manual outlining lots of the setup and installation process, and even setting up your flight controls. MSFS lacks any documentation expecting all to go online and watch a video. People learn by reading, then doing, then reading it again, and then doing it again, not watching someone else do it. It can be done that way but is counterintuitive for success over long periods of time. Notice when school went to remote learning, the scores for achievement tests went down like three grade levels. INHO-The biggest failing for this game is no manual. Especially one for the myriad of settings we have to choose from setting up flight controls. This falls on deaf ears at Asobo/MSFT. So, from the standpoint of documentation, XP, PMDG, and DC Designs, are miles ahead of this game.

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Discovery sim flights in geography education would be a revolutionary way of teaching as well as learning.
Me too learned so much geography from the exceptional scenery of the sim.
But as long as the potential of the sim is no topic in the official curricula,
the paedagocial value of the sim will be recognized only sparsely now.
Here Jörg could be once more a driving force.
bye walter

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Getting the young interested comes with surprises. Was showing the game to one of my Great-Grand-kids, 6 yrs. old. Took one look at the elephants, ‘that’s not right, Granpa!’ I ask what’s wrong with it, (I already knew). ‘Elephants stay together when they walk so the lions can’t eat them’. :laughing:

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If you widen from young simmers to new simmers, the default spawn point is indeed relevant.

However it has to be said that the essential issue when thinking about a new generation of users is whether they will be serious simmers or point and click game players.

The whole thing about msfs2020 is it’s whole-world “reality”. It doesn’t present as an arcade game: it tries to simulate the real world as far as possible. That’s its core appeal. That’s why it is vastly more popular than previous versions (and competitors).

And it’s why making it like IRL is the most important aspect. Not spawning on active runways is a good example of a way toward doing that at no cost.

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I live very close to Syracuse, and in the sim have flown from Cuse to Pittsburgh, among several other destinations and obviously arriving in Cuse from several destinations. I just thought it was interesting you mentioned Syracuse of all places!

On topic, I am glad to see that the younger generation is getting interested in flight simulator!

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Awh, this is a very wonderful story to hear. I’m sure she finds a lot of excitement in flying the planes. Hey, if this interest continues down the road, maybe when she gets a little bit older you could maybe take her on a trip to a full motion flight simulator. I’m sure she will also have the time of her life, and I’d love to hear back in a couple of years from now. :heartpulse:

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Unfortunately for me none of my nephews and nieces are interested in anything aviation and actually they find it immensely boring. So do all my other adult family members and 99% of my friends.

So I felt alone with this hobby.

Until I was contacted by a close friend of mine. He is a Senior Training Captain (A320) for a major airline.

Hey, you’re into these home flight sim things and know a lot. I dont! Thing is a Captain buddy of mine has a young son whose clamoring to fly a realistic 737NG since his dad flies the real thing. I dont have a clue where to start, can you help?

Walked his buddy through getting MSFS and told him to first get used to it before going in hardcore. He did this for about 2 weeks. I then pointed him to the PMDG 737NG.

All was quiet for a couple of weeks and then I got a message. It was a photo of mom, dad and their small son in front of a gaming PC and on the widescreen was the PMDG 737NG flight deck with their son flying it.

Thank you very much! We may be airline pilots but were clueless about PC gaming” they said. “He hogs the PC and wont let us do work on it so he can fly the 737!”

Made my day seeing that, another new recruit. The next generation.

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So far my kids (6 & 9) have no real interest in planes/flying. One gets airsick easy irl, but the other loves flying irl.

I did get a friend into MFS though.

There will always be new generations comming into this hobby, just like we did before them.

Realism is moot for new people. As one may just as easely enjoy full on arcade or full realism or a mix.

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Allow me to voice a counter-opinion:

I decided to take my original posting and use it to start another topic instead of hijacking this topic.

Viz.:

Ignoring your straw man argument, the point is that at present the default is to spawn on the active runway.

Nothing inherently wrong with that, but if you have multiplayer enabled (I don’t know if that is the default) this makes things unpleasant for other people.

Yes, I could park my car outside your house and play music really loud as I eat late-night chips. But it’s not a good thing to do.

Microsobo should not make the antisocial option the default. A spawn at a holding point as default if multiplayer is on, or a spawn on the runway as default if multiplayer is off would be superb.

Or have multiplayer switch off if you choose to spawn on the runway

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