I hope you guys don’t take offense. What you have committed to IS enough for my support, but not until a flyable build. I really want you to know I am behind you though. The second you announce a flyable build, my financial support will follow. Please make it good!
Airbus H145 Helicopter (Civilian, Luxury, Military Variants) - Accelerated Flight Systems & Hype Performance Group
You’re doing a pre-order for Early Access. Usually companies do pre-orders where clients pay upfront for the full product OR Early Access, meaning they pay and get access instantly to an Alpha/Beta/Whatever non-final version.
What is happening here is that you are asking for up-front payment on Early Access. That’s not very normal. Yes, we see that happening in DCS but we usually have a closed set of features and expected date of release. We don’t have none here. And this is really not DCS, so it’s not normal in the non-DCS flight simulation community. But hey: there’s always a first time. It’s not something that I personally would like to see starting a trend, though. We know what Early Access has been doing to DCS for several years now.
You have valued your product at a higher price than high-quality helicopters on other civilian sims, justifying that increase with unique features. Yet, we don’t know which features those are.
You shouldn’t be asking people to give you money out of faith. You should be asking people for money in exchange for access to a product that has a certain value, based on its properties or features.
I’m sorry but, it is weird. It’s a very weird process in which you are selling “faith in your team”, not a product with a closed set of features, because you haven’t even realized what those features will be.
Yes, I am concerned. It’s not so much concerns that you are to deliver a product or not, but a concern that this is opening a precedent and that other teams may look at this and start doing the same, treating the community as a way to get some up-front money “out of faith”.
Your actions count a lot, especially since the market is very small and what you do has a huge reverberation. In the future, you guys will just be another company in the middle of a ton of others but, right now, you have a lot of eyes on you and you are “leading by example”.
Our community is quite old and experienced, but we have a lot of newcomers coming into the hobby. A lot of those, for their inexperience, may be tricked by people that have no problems in trying to squeeze a few bucks out of a few hundred of them. Not you but some other folks that may look at what you do and see it could be working for them as well.
If people start thinking this process is normal because they see developers do it (and it’s not, I’m sorry but it really is not), we are opening the doors to allow for this to happen.
I don’t have anything against you, Dave or the rest of HPG. I just would like you guys to take a deep breathe, take a step back, look at what you’re doing, and make sure you do this well. We need that.
I have been working with companies, developers (software and hardware) and the community for years. I lend my hand to a lot of people (for free). My thoughts are always about helping the community and I work really hard, outside of my regular dayjob (the one that puts food on the table), stealing time from my family and myself to give back to everyone in this amazing hobby. I’m trying to help you and the community here by giving you the perspective that you may not have because you’re “in too deep” into the project. It’s normal. Been there, done that, I deal with that everyday and not just in simming.
It’s, of course, up to you guys. But trust me, Steve: what you guys are doing it’s not really normal. And it’s not a “distruptive” or “innovative” kind of not being normal. It’s just weird.
Another piece of unsolicited opinion: saying “we’re not forcing you to purchase” demonstrates a lack of faith on your own product. If you are doing a pre-sale/sale/early access, sell that sucker. You should be pushing sales, not saying we are free not to buy. Believe in your product and stick to it. Convince us.
With all due respect. I love your posts and I agree to a point. However, they have stated very explicitly that they are NOT “requiring” anyone to commit with financial support just yet. I haven’t and won’t until a flyable model is there. IF (and that’s a hypothetical) the price increases once a flyable model is available, in my eyes, it would be a monumentally stupid move. But unless that happens, all is well. I don’t have an issue with what they are doing except I won’t support it in its current iteration. LET THE MARKET SPEAK. If there are enough of us, it will be felt. By all indications, their model seems to work… for now. We will see how this all develops.
I’m not sure you read my whole post. I know it’s a wall of text but my concerns are not so much targeted towards what the market will say to this particular product and more at what this can open up in the future that can cause damage to the community in the long run.
Although I do have some concerns about this product, of course. But that’s something that will eventually settle in in its own way.
We are doing preorders for the H145 and one of the benefits is having early access to development builds prior to the official release. This is not at all uncommon in the gaming industry.
Anytime you preorder or support a product prior to its release you are doing so based off faith in the team behind that product or because you are impressed enough by the details currently available to you.
We understand your concerns and respect the longevity of your work in the community, but I don’t think any individual should position themselves as the authoritative voice for the community, the community themselves should decide what is acceptable and individuals will decide further what’s acceptable for their budgets.
You’ve taken other comments of mine out of context and replied with incorrect and/or negative assumptions, this obviously is discouraging when I’m coming to this thread hoping to have transparent communication with you, others in the media and the community.
First of all, congratulations on the high quality helicopter model. I have an important question. I get a very bad FPS value in the cockpit view of the EC 135 helicopter. The simulator starts stuttering in cockpit view. This is a very big problem. They know what is causing this serious problem. This error takes away the experience …
Will this error be fixed on the EC 145 helicopter?
I bought all the developer (Carenado, JustFlight) flying models, but the running is smooth, I get a flawless frame rate even in the cockpit view.
Hi there, are you on our Discord? If so please report your concern there or in our Airbus H135 thread.
What you’re reporting is not a known issue, I was just in a group flight with half a dozen H135 pilots last night and this issue was not voiced by anyone so we probably need to resolve your issue through troubleshooting your specific setup.
In reference to the H145 I can tell you that having great performance is a high priority item for us. We have a wide range of hardware available to our team, including VR hardware so we will be working hard on optimization across that platform as well.
And that’s why I am asking for more information. To be able to assess the value of the product.
Everyone should be able to voice their concerns and ask questions when something is not clear for them. That’s what I’m doing. I know it’s not always comfortable questions or comments and it would be easier if I didn’t ask them but, like I said, this whole process is weird for me and I’m trying to clarify a things so I have a better understanding of the product.
Could you please point out where I did this, exactly? It’s not my intention to be incorrect or negative and I would like to have the opportunity to take a second look at those comments. Thank you.
I’ve given multiple answers and based off your history in the flight sim community I know you are aware that devs will release more details about their aircraft the closer they get to release.
The only difference here is we have preorders available which people can completely ignore until they’ve heard or seen enough about the project to influence them to support the project.
This is an example of a comment you took out of context. I have said multiple times in this thread that we welcome feedback and the openness of our Discord shows that we don’t run away from questions or develop our aircraft in secrecy.
What I said in my reply is that you should not position yourself as the authority on what is allowed in the flight sim community and should allow the community to vote with their wallets. You are absolutely welcome to provide your feedback and ask questions and I’ll always respond as best as I can.
The community will hold anyone else who emulates us to the high standards we’ve set with the H135 and will raise even higher with the H145.
Don’t take my word for it, you’re on our Discord - interview a supporter of any of our projects and ask them why they support our team. We’ve proven ourselves, we shouldn’t be critiqued over concerns you have about other development teams.
I’ve noted an example above, and @BostonJeremy77 noted as well how you took my comment about not pushing early access marketing/sales to mean I’m not confident in our product when that is the furthest thing from the truth.
I mentioned previously that I honestly think the visual quality of our H145 is unmatched and everyone (including other devs) knows Dave is a wizard when it comes to all things related to flight models and systems so I have ZERO concerns about us living up to expectations - I have personally been blown away from the behind the scenes stuff and I own almost every addon aircraft so I’m not easy to impress.
Again, I respect your concerns and your opinion I just do not agree with them as I think the work we’ve already done in the community shows we aren’t here to take advantage of it.
Our weekly dev series starts tomorrow and we’re excited to show off some major work that has already been completed.
Sergio, there are truly no hard feelings and I’ll make the offer here to talk to you 1 on 1 whenever you’d like if you’d like to just discuss the topic further. We may not ever agree, but I think we both at least respectfully understand where each other are coming from.
That’s not taking anything from context. You are saying I’m positioning myself as “the authority on what is allowed in the flight sim community” when, in reality, I’m trying to understand the actual value of the product and what is it that we are getting with our money.
I may be making uncomfortable questions, yes, but since you are asking the community for money, I think it’s fair to try and assess exactly what is it that people will be getting in exchange. It’s that simple. I’m not being “authoritative”. I’m trying to clear things up.
It is true that developers fill up feature lists as they go. But they usually have a list of features closed when asking for a certain amount of money, as they have valued their product already. You mentioned there is a justification for the price increase and, again, I tried to understand what it was.
That’s the message you seem to be passing on to people. That’s the feeling I get from a developer that tells me “oh, look, if you don’t find it interesting, that’s OK, we are not forcing people to buy”. I’m not saying you are not trusting your product but that’s what comes across when you say something like that. Of course no one expects you to put the foot on the door, “old-vacuum-cleaner-salesmen style”.
You guys should be justifying pre-orders with the product itself, not just a leap of faith or saying people they don’t have to buy into it if they don’t want to. We know that. But we want to see a bit more, we want to understand the underlying value.
What you are seeing right now with the project is not public. We have no clue. I think you are being “blind from the outside” which is a phenomena that happens to development teams. They are not able to perceive how people outside the team/company see the product as they are omniscient. They know everything. So, it’s easy for fall into saying “this is great, it’s worth $100, give it to us, have faith”.
We don’t see that. We have no awareness of what’s going on and while a lot of people do “have faith”, others really don’t get it. My questions have been an attempt to get more information out to the public, because, again, Steven, really… $43 for a product sets you at a level that will need to surpass the best X-Plane addons on the market. And that is quite a tall order. But that’s a whole different matter we can discuss privately if you so wish to. I’m always available to help out. Dave knows, that as I already told him, that I’ll be here in case you guys want to have a chat or need help with something (that’s why I talked about my experience in the community, so that you realize I may be able to give some input that may help you out).
Like I said, I have nothing against your team and you are perfectly free to conduct business in whatever form you want to. Things will eventually work or not, which is perfectly normal. My concerns go a bit further than this specific situation.
With our Airbus H145 in full development we’ve started a weekly update series to keep the community informed of our progress.
This week’s video focuses on modeling work and the incredible detail that Tony and Guillaume are putting into each of the H145’s variants. We hope you enjoy this behind the scenes peek and we can’t wait to share additional details and footage with you all.
Yes Yes. Wonderful work! Very high quality! I like it. Such a professional sight is needed. Congratulations!
Is there a specialist to help you create flight dynamics?
Also pay attention to the frame rate …
I want professional classic helicopter models of this quality (Bell206JetRanger, AS350B1 Ecureuil, Hughes 500C / D from you.
Yes, our team will continue to solicit feedback from real world pilots, long time helicopter simmers and the community overall.
Our lead developer David Amenta is extremely talented and his design philosophy is to pay respect to realism while also providing an enjoyable experience for users.
Stay tuned for additional updates, we will have a development update that focuses on the flight model once more work has been completed there.
Now why would someone give money to buy something that…
1st is 99% the same with the freeware?
2nd is something that is not supported by the game itself?
As for the pre pay…I’ll pass
That looks really good! Very much looking forward to a release
Will there be an option to have the military version without the rocket pods/weapons, and in a black matte livery?
Our police force uses that version, and it would be great to have it in that config!
Happy Friday everyone!
The Accelerated Flight Systems team has been hard at work this week!
Development update # 2 is out on YouTube now, show us some love on the video and share it to your favorite social media platforms
Wonderful work! Fantastic…
Here’s a cool interview with the developer: https://msfsaddons.com/2021/06/12/an-interview-with-the-creators-of-the-airbus-h145/