Approaching straight to non-towered airport?

A slightly different topic on entering the pattern. When I see airplanes enter downwind, they usually swing around from the outside and enter midfield at a 45 degree angle.

Some I see fly over midfield and cut in on the downwind from the inside, basically just doing a 270 to touchdown. I’ve seen it with other airplanes in the pattern. Is that an okay practice? It almost seems like that could create a blind spot having traffic potentially to the outside.

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Wars have been started over less controversial topics. :sweat_smile:

In the US, the 45 to downwind is preferred. If you’re arriving from the non-pattern side of the field, many instructors teach you to overfly at 500’ above pattern altitude and do a teardrop to arrive at that point versus a direct turn onto downwind. The difference is not only the sightlines, but the altitude. Descending into the pattern should always be avoided, so the standard practice is to do that in the teardrop, well outside the pattern.

Now, some will argue that you shouldn’t overfly the airport above the pattern altitude because you’re in the area that heavier/faster or multi-engine aircraft often do their patterns.

Then you go to Canada, where if you’re arriving on the non-pattern side, doing an overhead at pattern altitude and direct-to-downwind entry is preferred.

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Just remember, IFR operations, including practice approaches, take all the VFR pattern entry stuff and basically throw it out the window. Plenty of operations are mixed IFR and VFR, so everything pattern-related always has a big caveat - what you expect and what may actually happen are often two different things.

It’s all so confusing, I’m just trying to learn by reverse engineering. :rofl: The airplane that came from the reverse side appeared to be at pattern altitude according to FR24.

In the sim, if I’m not being too lazy, I’ll do the teardrop entry.

For this airport I’m watching, I’ve noticed most of the traffic seems to follow in on the water routes, so they typically divert to come in wide a this one particular bridge.

I’ll often hear landmarks mentioned for position too, like “white building”. It seems helpful, but then a pilot not familiar with the airport wouldn’t know.

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That is something else I’ve pondered, IFR traffic at an uncontrolled airport. If it were true IFR conditions, there shouldn’t be any airplanes in pattern. But then throw training and all into the mix as above.

I’ve seen at controlled airports, the tower giving instructions to extend the leg or make an outer 360 loop for IFR approaches with faster/heavier airplanes.

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Unless it’s a designated visual reporting point (VRP, which are usually associated with towered airports and/or complex airspace) or there’s some other official publication (including obscure letters of authorization you’d have to dig to find). that practice is discouraged for exactly that reason. If a towered airport starts throwing that terminology at you, just tell them “unfamiliar.” That won’t stop some, like San Carlos (KSQL) from putting you on blast for not knowing the noise abatement procedures listed only on their website.

Either way, part of the due diligence of preflight actions is to check the chart supplement for that kind of stuff.

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Ah, but there are several big caveats to this. Namely, IMC can exist anywhere - not just on an airport. The airport may be conditionally VFR or MVFR, but you may need to shoot an approach to get under a layer or around a bunch of clouds between you and the airport. Or perhaps instrument approaches are required by an airline’s OpSpecs.

But at the end of the day, the vast majority of non-towered fields have uncontrolled airspace (class G) up to 700’ or 1200’ above the airport. So while I’m inbound in controlled airspace at 3,000’, picking my way through 2 miles vis and popping in and out of clouds, IFR, a person who wants to beat up the pattern in their 172, during daytime VFR conditions, only has to have 1 statute mile visibility and remain clear of clouds as long as they stay in that uncontrolled airspace. Not that that’s a great idea, but there’s a lot of room between 1 and 3 miles and there are a lot of things that happen between where you’re coming from and the airport itself.

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Re mixing VFR and IFR at uncontrolled airports:

My understanding is that VFR planes are always responsible for maintaining safe separation from other aircraft – which means if an IFR plane appears suddenly out of the clouds at the closest allowed point, you just gotta deal with it. And if you can’t guarantee you’d be able to deal with it if a plane appeared at the most inconvenient moment, you’re the one that’s too close to the clouds. :slight_smile:

If you’re on the radio, ideally the IFR plane is announcing themselves so you know they’re coming, but if you’re in a vintage no-electrical-system Cub or ultralight with no radio, you just have to keep your eyes peeled…

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Reminds me of my PPL practical exam - examiner told me to go up to 4000 ft flying from KLNA to PHK pahokee. I had never been up that high and ther were big puff ball clouds around when I got there very proud of my cruise climb while keeping track of where I was on the knee chart. The examiner announced “what are you gonna do?”, and I asked what did he mean? He stated you can’t stay here. I was totally confused - I was nowhere near any of the clouds, (but in the layer).

I asked did he want me to go up or down? He shouted at me “You’re the da## pilot, but you can’t stay here!”

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My understanding is that VFR planes are always responsible for maintaining safe separation from other aircraft – which means if an IFR plane appears suddenly out of the clouds at the closest allowed point, you just gotta deal with it.

Thank you for this information @Vibstronium ! When I was working on my PPL years ago I was flying the pattern solo in a C150 at an uncontrolled airport and announced on the radio that I was on downwind, turning base for Rwy 19. On base, I saw “out of the blue” a commercial plane approaching fast from the west, turning toward rwy 19. I turned final and stated that over the radio. I thought I could land but was nervous and briefly stalled on approach. I nosed down, throttled up, recovered, then decided on and announced a go around. The commercial plane landed. I remained in the pattern and landed on the next opportunity.

I’ve always wondered about this scenario and why the commercial plane, likely a B1900d or similar, did not announce its intentions earlier ( at least I didn’t hear anything) and I don’t remember the other pilot ever announcing “on final rwy 19.” As it’s been years since, I may remember hearing a position reported when miles away.

I was not aware that VFR planes are always responsible for safe separation. At that time I had only flown solo once or twice previously.

I assume the commercial pilot was flying IFR. Did he/she assume I knew this rule and not have to state anything over the radio?
At that time, this particular airport had very little traffic.

(I was never able to complete my PPL due primarily to the cost. So I fly virtually).

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Thanks for sharing!

As just a lifelong simmer I’m surprised this topic is even open to so much discussion with real pilots.

Whatever the rules are, I’d have to say a commercial pilot coming into a low traffic, untowered airport, should be exercising way more caution.

But who knows, perhaps they were on the wrong frequency? Or even you could have been? That must happen every once in a rare while?

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It’s possible but I think they would have had to change the frequency after (as I recall) I heard a position announcement. But it’s been over twenty years ago now. It’s possible something with the radio was wrong on my end, too. I just don’t remember thinking it was a possibility at that time.

Forgot that part! Odds are that was all good.

I don’t have access to the sim for a bit. So I have been studying FR24+LiveATC like crazy. It seems 99% of the pilot’s I hear seem to really be looking out for each other, especially when CFIs are onboard. They usually have a good awareness of what it’s like to be a normal human trying to fly.

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For sure! I was and still am just a wannabe pilot. So it’s likely I had an issue on my end that contributed, at least, quite a lot to the situation, such as not knowing that VFR aircraft must maintain the separation from IFR.

My understanding is they should have announced themselves on the local radio frequency, as it’s a lot safer if they do. :slight_smile: But whether they do or not, you have to be prepared for it to happen – and if you were in a plane with no radio, you wouldn’t be able to hear them even if they did.

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I don’t know why I’m so fascinated by all this :grin:, but I did just hear a Citation jet overfly an uncontrolled airport at 2,000 feet over pattern and he let the traffic know.

Is that customary?

yep. because they are close enough to pattern. at my airport corporate jets fly in and the get in the downwind just like everyone else but higher and further out.

Absolutely normal. If I’m doing airwork (like circling a passenger’s house or other landmark) within 10 miles of an uncontrolled field, I’ll usually call CTAF and say something like “4CF 8 NE of Smithsville Muni, airwork below 3,000’”

Same with doing a relatively low overflight (with no intention to join the pattern): “4CF 5 W of Smithsville Muni, will transition eastbound over the field at 2,000’, departing the area to the east. If I’m more than 1,500’ above the pattern or so, I probably won’t key up. Also depends a bit on how busy the area is, who else is transiting, making calls, what’s on ADS-B, etc.

The FAA just came out with an advisory circular on this topic:

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That’s a great doc – tons of advice on flying around small untowered airports. :smiley: