Bell 407

The helicopter in the video seems way more stable than what I’m experiencing with anti-torque assist off. If I slowly apply up collective to get light on the skids or in a ~1 foot hover, I have to also immediately put in a significant amount of left pedal to keep it straight. While it’s pretty stable and controllable once I get it in forward flight faster than maybe 20 knots or so, in a hover I’m experiencing what several others have mentioned, where it feels like a radio-controlled model helicopter without a directional gyro, where it takes constant “rudder” adjustments with any collective inputs and also slides around laterally/longitudinally (in a Foucault pendulum-like motion) if you don’t have your cyclic adjustments spot on.

I may have to try the switch to legacy flight model and then back to modern flight model thing to see if that has any positive effect.

I set the fadec switch to manual, but I can’t control the engine power.

Ok after goofing around in legacy last night for about 4 hours it was ‘flyable’. I switched it BACK to modern and this is cake to fly now, still a little goofy being slow and haven’t checked to see if trim can be locked in forward cruise. But what a HUGE difference.

So if it’s complete berserker, I guess the switch to legacy and then BACK to modern works. Flies like a helicopter now. I can’t seem to do anything with engine power either. I’m sure they’ll patch it at least to make normal cruise power/speed. Need to add some negative sensitivity curve to the collective around center(not dead zone-dead zones are definitely not for helis) the HOTAS detent makes it a little too jumpy right at the point of setting down because of the bump. Completely perfect flight that gets goofy in the last 3 seconds…

Yeah no matter you move the controls, the disc doesn’t do anything… No tilting forward/backward, left right etc… Hopefully they’ll add this later.

And I think for Bell-407, pulling the stick aft before take off is because of the neutral swash plate position is tilted forward, so if you don’t pull stick aft to take off, it likely taking off going forward.
If we watch Youtube videos of Bell-407 take offs, we’ll notice this “tilting forward” of the blades, and just before take off, the disc will tilt backwards (to a more “neutral” position), the heli will pitch up a bit, then the front part of the skids will leave the ground first.

I also noticed this “pitch up” before taking off in MSFS, but it feels “automatic” / scripted instead of us manually pulling and holding the stick aft before taking off to get this effect.

Hopefully devs will take note of this and fix it in the next update.

Unflyable?? Maybe on the Xbox, but it flies fantastic on PC.

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Hi folks!

I have flown the 407 in real life for some time and I have tested this one for a while…
Assuming simulation is never going to be like the real machine, and even Level D simulators are not exactly like the real one, in my opinion, this is a nice 407 to be a first version; It is very well modelled(graphically), and It has a beautiful and realistic interior, but I have observed several issues related to realism is aerodinamics and in basic systems:

-Torque value is coherent in hover at S.L. around 75%TQ at full G.W. but it is not able to pass 86%.
-TQ and MGT values are not paired and correlated all the time when you raise collective.
-Collective axis should be separated from Throttle axis. In a helicopter the throttle is in your fist, and the governor maintains NR when you raise collective. Mixture cannot be asigned to Throttle on collective control like in the Gabri…
-Auto’s are not working (In the Nemeth FSX 407 they never did):Nr in autos does not respond to changes in bank or in flare, and the flare by itself should be able to stop the descent rate to zero.

For comparaison purpose, If the 407 flew like the Gabri does, It would be a big step forward.

Regards!

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Even with a Microsoft Xbox gamepad, I fly and fly helis well so in my PC, no pedals hardware nor sim-copter helps activated. There are maybe bugs but what I read here too sound more to need to learn and practise. A VR o trackir like the video above help to hover too.

That is how it should respond with the assists off. Every collective input also requires an adjustment to the pedals and cyclic.

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How do I engage the rotor brake? I can’t figure out how to keep it engaged. Also, does anyone know how to get rid of the cyclic centering light?

Compared to Dreamfoil’s B407 for X-Plane, Nemeth Designs’ B407 for MSFS misses a few marks. It seems like it was released with an early access or SDK showcase model approach. It feels great to fly and you can definitely tell that the MSFS and Nemeth Designs team put a lot of work into the helicopter aerodynamics and flight model. The power and performance make no sense for some of the operations; it has unrealistic torque values in different modes of flight. The start-up process has some discrepancies and the RPM goes to full even when set on idle. Speaking of idle, you can’t bind the throttle axis to your physical hardware.

Even if you use the mouse to rotate the throttle, it still won’t change the RPM. It has no GTN 750/650 integration on release which is odd since Asobo’s Cabri G2 does. It would also be nice to compliment a 750/650 with HeliSAS, similar to Dreamfoil’s B407. There are some inconsistencies with switches and even in 2D the legibility of text on the instrument panel is just subpar. VR text legibility is far worse somehow as I found it to be an absolute eye-strain of a blurry mess. Little details like interactable pilot and passenger doors, a working overhead panel light, etc would have been nice but not a priority.

I tested the MSFS B407 on a PFT Puma, RTX 3090, i9-10900KF, 128 GB RAM, HP Reverb G2, with in-game textures set to Ultra, and all assists OFF (true to life).

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RIP Frank Robinson founder of Robinson Helicopters , R22 ,R44 and R66 :frowning:

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The bell 47 g2 would probably be the most realistic helicoper out there for msfs up until this point. It uses a proprietary injection engine for the physics that is used in high end trainers. Its similar, but not the same as the one used for the 145 and r44.

Thanks, what I meant specifically was that the video in the post I was responding to is labeled as “Unassisted,” but if you watch the video the helicopter seems rather stable for the relative lack of movement in the controls.

I spent the evening landing it on global shipping military ships in HI. You can even land on the moving ones. Seafront needs to enable crash detection on the merchant ships. Pretty awesome.

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I made some quick tries and i think VRS (vortex ring state) is overdone IMHO.
at very low altitudes and not with a dramatic slowdown, still encounters lethal VRS.

the other problem is, I set my second stick (msffb2) as cyclic axis and it works well but the pitch and roll axis also works with other stick. So there are two sets of controls for helicopters? (cyclic + pitch/roll axis). these 2 sets interfere each other. I believe helicopter axis should not be effected by pitch and roll?

In MSFS you can set up more than 1 profile for your joysticks. I did one separate for helicopters. The aileron and elevator axis was by default copied from airplanes. I removed them and replaced them with the 2 new helicopter axis that you mentioned. Since then I think the helicopter flew better for me.

Make sure you don’t have these controls set up in more than 1 joystick. They will interfere.

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Are your Cyclic linked to the aileron and elevator, or did you change them to the new helicopter cyclic longitudinal / lateral axis?

I set my ffb2 as helicopter longitudinal / lateral axis nothing else. I didn’t touch other settings. Even my TMWH stick is not set for helicopter longitudinal / lateral axis, it still has control over the helicopters

Only one joystick should have the helicopter’s long/lateral axis set. The other one that has the elevator/aileron should have those axis removed. I recommend a separate profile for heli’s where they are not set. Just the slightest movement on the second joystick or even millivolt drift on the sensor might be picked up as a movement.

Thanks! I will try it tommorow…