Can PMDG add some spoilers to the DC 6?

I’m currently just ‘training’ on the same flight. Trying to nail the same landing.

I’d say I do the ‘before landing’ probably 11 miles out? Maybe a bit earlier. Will check the next time around. But I’d rather be too early than too late :smiley:

I am very early though with reaching the desired altitude for the ILS capture. So it’s not a descend continuously.

In one of the PMDG videos they talk about how In these radials you have to always maintain forward propeller thrust in flight in order to protect the crankshaft thrust bearings. The props should be pulling the aircraft forward, always, while in the air, even if just barely. If the prop rpm and power settings are reduced enough for the props to create drag, it loads the crankshaft bearings and very quickly destroys them. So even on approach, the engines can’t just be throttled back to create drag like you can do in many aircraft. Even on approach, the engines are pulling the aircraft against the drag.

So the key to landing is to reduce power much earlier than a jet, and use drag to manage descent.

Rob at PMDG talks about how he destroyed his personal IRL DC-3’s engines by doing so, and it was an expensive lesson for him to learn.

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PDMG,
“Slowing for approach”, PMDG DC-6 Tutorial 17: Slowing for the Approach - YouTube

“using drag to manage final approach”, PMDG DC-6 Tutorial 19: Using Drag to Manage the Final Approach - YouTube

“straight in landing”, PMDG DC-6 Tutorial 18: The Straight In Landing - YouTube

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This is mostly correct and in a DC3 as Rob has it this is 100% correct. But a DC6 has reverse propellers, they have bearings that can actually take some force. High RPM must always be set with a working brain. It‘s important to keep the lubrication healthy. If you bring the revolutions up too much you can break the oil film between piston and cylinder and then your engine is fu**ed. So increase the RPM without entering the yellow band on the tachometer and this has the effect that the governor will reduce the pitch of the prop blades (actually this happens vice versa but doesn‘t matter) and while the blades will still work like a wing (create lift directed to the front) they blow less additional air above the wings and the additional lift will be reduced. Yes, mulit-engine prop aircraft engines effectively also create a lift component. That’s why you fly at level with a negative nose pitch while you’re always positive in a jet or single engine aircraft… or a pusher… You reduce it with fine pitch. Less lift will require a higher pitch of the aircraft which will eventually create drag. And that‘s what you want. The higher your angle of attack, the more drag you create.

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We had a group fly yesterday and after reaching our destination a few of us hopped into the DC-6. We were on a short dirt/grass strip so were pushing the planes a bit harder to get out and get back in. Just barely cleared trees on the way out but on the way back in, it was my best approach and landing yet. Full flaps, about 10kts above stall, just cleared the trees on the way in, set her down gently with no bounce. And was stopped by midfield. It’s a huge feeling of accomplishment to bring one in like that.

But spoilers? The whole point of the DC-6 is to try to emulate a real aircraft and fly it within the constraints the real pilots had. It would be like wanting to add jet or rocket engines, make it capable of space flight, or any other equally wacky modifications. There’s a bunch of us who prefer faithful simulations and want as detailed and accurate of aircraft that we can get. We get defensive when others advocate for realism-spoiling cheats - because that’s really what they are.

Best way is to just learn the techniques real pilots used to slow down. They had timetables to meet and passengers/cargo to haul. They needed to complete their flights as efficiently as possible. It can be done. Just takes the determination to learn and some practice.

Very instructive thank you!

She’s not too good on short field takeoffs, but she’s not horrible.

By comparison, I love to fly out of TFFJ. I love to fly the 787. Using the full runway, every bit of asphalt, I can reach approximately 120knots with 20degrees of flaps before I rotate and climb away gracefully with power to spare, in a 787. Using auto-brakes and and reverse thrust I can land on 28 and come to a full stop by the terminal building.

In the DC-6, I back up to use every inch of asphalt, set brake, 20 degree of flaps, and command a “Wet Takeoff”. (Wet takeoff isn’t for rain, it’s a takeoff with water injection activated for a higher manifold pressure boost). Once the AFE reports full power set, I release the brakes and have just enough ground speed to get airborne, but I have to be very gentle and barely rotate. If not, it hemorrhages speed. Done smoothly, you can climb out straight from 10 and just barely clear the hills by 100 feet. Landing on 28, crossing the threshold at 95 knots, the brakes are strong enough to stop before the terminal building even without using reverse thrust.

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This is the specific section where Rob talks about maintaining a quotient of thrust on descent. Yes, reversers (which aren’t used in flight) do load the bearings in the reverse direction. However, when reversing the engines are throttled up and this provides more oil pressure to the bearings. It’s not the same situation as a descent with low power, and high drag, which would have less oil pressure to the bearings. Low power descents also cause the crankshaft to flex because of the high drag loading of the propellors being “shoved” into the air at flight speeds.

“In Radial Engines, you do not pull the power to Idle. Repeat after Me, You do not pull the power, to Idle”, Rob

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Even on Jet’s, they typically maintain around 30% N1 on final and manage speed with drag. Mostly so the engines can spool back up quickly, but that same lag time is present in radial engines. So flying with thrust and managing drag provides a more stable flight regime, and a more stable approach.

/just thinking aloud, not a pilot or engineer, just an old gear head and simmer

jup idle would be pretty bad. Don’t run the propellers by wind…

No in a jet full flaps configuration usually gives/requires around 60% N1 on a 3° final while Vref approximately equals V2. In a jet like in any heavier aircraft (above the typical single engine prop) you manage your speed with the throttles and the altitude/glide path with the nose. Pitch for speed and power for descent remains the basic principle but you don’t constantly fly up or down when you have passengers in the back and when your aircraft is too inert to actually react quickly enough. Your turbines at 60% N1 react fast enough. in a single engine plane it’s a little different. You want to reach a safe landing place if you lose your engine on final. If you have to approach over a forest you’ll be high enough to be able to glide to the runway. A multi engine aircraft is safer and you can go back to throttle for speed.