Clouds - a new hope

Before SU7 (Sept.29 2021) he said: Late this year you will get this first Update (remark: SU7), we’re planning on another which will be really awesome when it happens. It will probably be in 2022, it could be as late as 2023.

I remember using the “blow you away” ‘quote’ myself, but maybe it was more of an interpretation of the above.

Perhaps he was referring to the wind changes so we have already had it

Here you have the addon. Check it out, it is worth giving a try as is only a folder you put on comunity.
Once copied, on the weather settings of the sim you can check the preset you prefer.

In your case I advise you to install the folder named by cloud type, to make it easier to check if cirrus are ok.

Another word of caution is that unfortunately this is not injected in real time weather, only presets, but they are very nice.

Hope it helps!

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Here’s a copy/paste from a post of mine from I made in Oct. 5th, 2021:

You know, Jorg has mentioned several times that the weather is going to get an awesome update at some point. In fact, he mentioned it again in the most recent Live Dev Q&A.

At 1:03:49 Jorg says starts talking about the weather system and the partnership with Meteoblue. Quick transcription:

Weather for us is a big deal, right… it is something we are heavily, heavily investing in. And we think with Meteoblue we have a great partner. This, this late this year you will get that first update, we are planning on another one which will be really awesome, when it happens it’ll probably be in 22, could be as late as 23. But, weather is one of those things, it’s where planes live, it needs to be awesome and we will get it, we will get it as good as you can get it. That is really the goal.

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And in the latest development update they talked about opening up somethings to third party developers! I wonder if that can be weather?! The Sim has a lot of potential! I hope the Asobo/MSFT team realizes that they should focus on basis and provide the grounds to developers to come in and take over some of the major aspects of the Sim including the weather!

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They’ve said clearly, including I’m sure in the dev livestream last week, that weather is core functionality which needs to work for everyone and will not be made available for replacement by third parties. I kind of agree where they are coming from on that point.

As to the improvements discussed back in 2021, I’m guessing we already had those. Since then we’ve had some big cloud improvements and the thermals for gliders, and CFD. It could have been any of those, and since they haven’t mentioned anything recently it seems likely there’s nothing major coming up soon. On the other hand Asobo have made it clear that weather will be continuously improved so things will get better.

Sorry, I really can’t agree with that. The clouds have had some slight improvements following their utter devastation in SU 7, but they’re a long way off what we originally had, and starting to be eclipsed by clouds in other sims.

Frankly, the whole sky / clouds / lighting / atmosphere caboodle could do with some attention. The money I drop in the marketplace may soon be going to at least one other sim’s devs.

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Sorry, this is the post I should’ve linked:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/good-job-on-the-improvements-to-the-weather-engine/529227/91?u=popsmcdaddyo

The critical part being Jorg’s quote from the article:
And then there’s going to be cool weather features coming over the next two years. There is some fascinating stuff that is possible now with weather that has never been done anywhere. I mean nowhere. I’m not even talking about flight simulation. Nobody has done it. There are moving satellites that track storm systems by the kilometer… It’s very, very cool what we’ll be able to do.

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Text of the full post:
Of course they have their official weather partner Meteoblue (check that site, it’s got some great info there, well worth the read).

Also, Jorg has mentioned several times that they have some BIG surprises for weather… like this excerpt from the Twinfinite Interview with Jorg Neumann Nov. 16, 2021:

And then there’s going to be cool weather features coming over the next two years. There is some fascinating stuff that is possible now with weather that has never been done anywhere. I mean nowhere. I’m not even talking about flight simulation. Nobody has done it. There are moving satellites that track storm systems by the kilometer… It’s very, very cool what we’ll be able to do.

I think part of the issue is surprises… wanting to keep information on this kind of feature secret until the big surprise is sprung. Their team knows some fantastic stuff is going to be added, stuff so amazing that they don’t worry about the current state.

If they told us what the have coming up in the way of new features and functionality, it would alleviate some of the concern and worry in the Community. I for one have a very positive outlook… it’s just difficult to know that we have to wait 2 years to get there :slight_smile:

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The question is. Is it tracked and also collected data in real time that also is possible to send to the sim in real time? Weather flows dynamically in real time and it will not feel like weather if it needs to updated in the sim every minute for example.

It’s hard, i would say impossible to make already known static data dynamic like weather is.

You can try it by record video of the sky with clouds and then try to match a second video that is recorded some minutes later and then try to make the split of those two videos unnoticable.

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How do you know if it’s acting like weather if it’s on rails within a bounded area and not updated for long periods? It may look like it’s acting like something weather-related, but there’s so much that goes into weather genesis (that isn’t modeled) that it can’t possibly be behaving realistically to the geography and realistic conditions, especially over time, other than it’s blended and animated well.

Updates are necessary, otherwise it’s just a loop in a box.

In terms of rendering, that’s a separate issue.

Generally happy with clouds. Cirrus etc needs an improvement. But the looks are 10x better than competitor sims…
What we need is turbulence and abrupt up-/dowdrafts INSIDE clouds. Whats the point of CBs and storm-clouds (that you can track down to the km) if there is no penalty flying into these clouds?
Can still fly my mighty C152 into the most severe WX the planet can offer - no turbulence,just steady updrafts for miles…

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Yeah, he was talking a lot about upcoming weather features back then , and I was very excited for SU7…until it hit!
And I couldn’t but notice how mum he has been ever since.
And then there’s the sudden change in the paradigm of third parties not getting involved with core features they mentioned in the last Q&A - as if they hadn’t denied that categorically from the beginning.

I hope they’ll surprise us, but I have a strong feeling he might have been way too optimistic back then.

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Well there are some surprises labelled on the roadmap, it’d be cool if one of them was such a major improvement to the weather. Although to be honest I’d rather one of them be a complete replacement for the terrible ATC we have right now.

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ATC: not 2023, that’s been said in dev update November 2022 (I think)

Because the weather didn’t need to update for 12 hours. Real weather don’t need updates at all. It just flows.

For sure and it did with the 12 hour model too 2 times per day and i preffered the animated/dynamic box of weather for 12 hours without the interuptions with less detailed weather data inbetween that we have now.

Could the 12 hour model been improved? For sure it could, if they added 12 hourmodel runs with higher resolution for those regions that exists. More specifically, instead of having global 12 hour models they should have used regional 12 hour models with the highest possible resolution available for that specific region.

For example: North America should have used NOAA regional models, Europe should have used Meteoblue or ICON regional models. NEMS has 4KM res data for central europe and NOAA has NAM3 for 3KM res for north america.

Instead they were using a global 30KM model.

Okay, but as we’ve discussed to death, this is an incorrect assumption as with a 12-hour update, it still doesn’t flow correctly and behave as weather does. With a 12-hour refresh it repeats in a loop at wherever the geographical boundary is. It doesn’t follow diurnal patterns (12 hours is far too long for that). It doesn’t take into account genesis or destruction of weather in the meantime - dry slots, frontogenesis, frontolysis, storm initiation as convective inhibition is broken. Therefore it will, must, jump when it’s updated. Is that realistic?

Have you ever observed the initiation of a squall line in the American South and Midwest? These have a MAJOR effect on thousands of aircraft operations almost every day, ~9 or more months of the year. 12 hour updates will not produce accurate, observable, plannable weather in those cases, at all. The “where and when” of these are incredibly important and are generally not highly predictable until a few hours prior, due to many factors.

Likewise, the track of the center of rotation of a surface-based low pressure system will absolutely make a huge difference as to where certain types of weather fall - freezing rain, snow, storms, etc. Being off by a few dozen miles (or several hours) absolutely makes a HUGE difference in the type of weather you’ll receive. And also, yet again, in the 12-hour update, it will have to jump once it’s updated. Not realistic.

Regardless, realistic weather behaves as realistic weather does and the only way to recreate that properly is to either model it granularly (impossible with current limitations), or to refresh and update it more frequently because those observations are what the weather has actually done. That is the utmost in realism - use what it actually does rather than a painting of what the untrained think weather is supposed to look like.

This is before we get back into my argument that observational products must be useable in a modern environment, which was not possible to do with any degree of realistic accuracy with the old system.

And yet, after all of that, the in-sim weather does actually flow, to this day. So this becomes, again, a straw argument.

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I implore anyone who wants a realistic weather experience to read this free publication. This is an update and consolidation to the myriad advisories circular and handouts of the past regarding aviation weather, forecasting, and products. An absolute must-read for US pilots, and I’m sure helpful to all pilots everywhere.

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If the SIM updated weather every minute from real world sources, that would be remarkable and highly dynamic.

The idea that it would need to refresh at the rate of ‘reality’ (what’s that, Planck Constant?) to be real is a bizarre test to apply.

What matters is the size of the data pipe and the rendering options.

I know that both forecast models and observations has limitations. And for what i use this sim the limitations the 12 hours forecast model had i could live with, thats why i preffered that system. I think we both can agree that the weather is impossible to get inside the sim in full detail in real time globally. If that were possible neither forecasts or observations would be needed anymore because if it were possible the weather would be 100% predictable globally already.

I just hope to get the experience back again that i enjoyed while flying pre su7. It’s not there yet. I think those discussions are good for the sim weather in the long run though :wink:

Great point! Real time is an EXTREMELY lofty goal… we’ve got issues now with the current system!:blush:

I’m clueless what he was so charged up about, but as TomL mentions below, he may have been way too optimistic back then.

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