Full Flight Simulators vs Game Simulators

I agree. Visuals have been lagging behind. MSFS is so much better :grinning:.

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I fly X-Plane 11 and MSFS, as both have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect; they co-exist on my PC depending on what kind of mood I am in (e.g., IFR/longer hauls or VFR/bush trips respectively). The game versus sim debate is definitely a subjective and protracted one.

Here is the difference between turning the Cessna in X-Plane and MSFS.

MSFS. Notice how cokpit is turning sideways as I move the aircraft. Head movements are disabled.

A screenshot from YT video about the same Cessna 172. Notice how cockpit is still sitting straight at 180 degree angle even if the Cessna is turning

The YT screenshot taken from there. Try to watch the video and keep a straight object against the cockpit - and you notice how it stays in the same position during the flight, and then try to do the same in MSFS.

P.S. My appologize Coppersens, I tried to search for this comment, and scrolled several videos comment sections from start to finish - but still could not find that original comment.

Are you talking about the difference in zoom you have between the two views?
Why are you so zoomed out on MSFS, that’s a wicked wide angle lens view you’ve got going there.

If your head position bothers you in MSFS, change it. And definitely don’t zoom back so far.

You’re also turning more steeply in MSFS in those two shots. Not a lot, but about 5 to 10 degrees more.

Next time you compare shots, make sure the zoom is about the same for the two views, and your head is in about the same position.

Other than that I don’t see a difference between the two. Can you try to explain better what you mean by the difference between the two shots?

Edit: Oh, I think I see what you’re saying. You don’t like the effect of gravity on your head that MSFS tries to portray a bit I think. You’d rather fly as if you have a brace on your neck?

Edit2: If you set your zoom properly, you’ll have exactly the same view in each cockpit. Notice how the view goes from the edge of the air nozzle to about halfway across the co-pilot’s side of the panel in X-plane. Whereas, in MSFS, you’ve zoomed so far out, and created such visual distortion, you can see all the way back to the door on the co-pilot’s side.

I highly recommend you zoom in a bit. Of course it looks different in MSFS, you’ve got huge fisheye distortion you’re zoomed back so far. Why is it ok in X-plane to not do that?

I’m not saying stare at the instrument panel, I’m saying, set up your view so it’s got the same width in both softwares. If you can get the proper view that way in X-plane, then you can create the same view in MSFS by adjusting camera position, zoom, etc…

Personally, I fly using mouse look. And turn it off when I need to press something.

It would be really hard to see surronadings if I will keep it focused on the instrument panel.

Here, you go, I tried again but this time to make zoom level and the turn more precise to the video. But the cockpit is still not sitting straight as you can see. Yes, the angle may not feel big - but it still there.

But more important, that was not my original comment - I only telling you what the other person said.

That’s still a wider view.
It’s not straight because your head is twisted to the right a little bit.

You can move your head around in the cockpit in a variety of ways in MSFS, just like in X-Plane.

In fact, I went out and created new head positions through new camera.cfg’s myself for planes like the Bonanza and XCub. The head position in those planes was like a 5 year old was flying the plane.

If you want to compare views, make sure what you see at the edges of the image is exactly the same. In your second image, you can see the whole copilots side of the instrument panel, and, your head is twisted a bit looking to the right.

I’m assuming you’ve tried using mouse look and twisted your head around?

In fact, I’d have a difficult time landing with a viewpoint like that. You want your eyes looking straight ahead, so they’re looking straight halfway between the compass and the clock. The Horizon indicator should be straight ahead, centered in your view.

If you wish, you could do a better screenshot and show what you consider to be a better view. I’d like to know too - because I admit, I might indeed messed up with some settings.

P.S. By futher playing with the settings I discovered that setting the home cockpit option disables the cockpit movement - but at a downside you cannot move camera around anymore.

It’s the same on my PC and it’s a nice effect.

The ‘bank angle’ of your head doesn’t match the bank angle of the aircraft in MSFS.

It seems to simulate that you are trying to keep the head a bit more level when banking, but this shouldn’t cause any disorientation.

I have turned the head movements off, but that’s a nice and pretty subtle effect.


Is there even a single thread on this entire forum that you cannot manage to poison with your negativity? For a product that you claim to hate so badly, you are putting a lot of energy into that negativity, and feeding it just like gasoline might feed a fire. It’s not good for you, and it sure isn’t good for us.

If you can’t make it work, or if it just will not meet your lofty expectations, perhaps it’s time to find a new hobby. Alternatively, if your issues are with perceived “bugs”, especially if what some might describe as “countless CDTs”, you might just find that a new computer might solve your problems, because much of the time, it is something unique to an individual computer that causes such things.

Otherwise people like me, who don’t have the same level of problems as you, simply wouldn’t exist.

It’s up to you, of course, but were I in your shoes, I’d do whatever I had to, including buying a whole new computer, to get the “broken” software working, or move on. Your call.



I know these head movements are not very realistic and you can’t turn them off. I got confused by you “in X-plane the horizon moves, in MSFS the cockpit moves”, which sounds more like western versus Russian attitude indicator philosophy or so :joy:.

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Btw, may I ask an offtopic question about your European ATC phraseology mod. I noticed that my ATC keep saying things like “London radar. radar contact”. Do they really say so or it is some kind of a bug or limiatition? This “radar radar” thing sounds a bit weird.

No that is accurate, the ATSU is called “London Radar”, he then states “radar contact”. Some en-route ATSUs are called “control” instead of “radar”, Radar is more common and you can only use one is FS2020. Otherwise it would have been “London control, radar contact”.

well its built with a frontend (UI / UX) designed for consoles and gamepad control right from the get go. i’m guessing they won’t natively support multiple monitors/displays unless a console comes out sporting multiple outputs. the latest update where they put “scenic tours” at the forefront (where one can just jumps into a plane already configured and in full flight) is a big hint at which directions the “sim” is going.
imho it will be up to third party devs to provide the fidelity/features serious simmers are looking for - asobo is just laying the foundation that will serve the lowest common denominator.

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Don’t know if this is still the case, but back in my time, ‘control’ indicated that the ATSU wasn’t radar equipped.

I know a couple of places which are called control and definitely are radar equipped. My theory is that if the en-route unit bears the same name as an airport approach control, the approach control can be called radar and the en-route control becomes control.

For example in Tallinn:

  • Approach / departure control is called “Tallinn Radar”
  • En-route control is called “Tallinn Control”

I think the approach control its called Tallinn “radar” and not “approach” because it directs the departures and arrivals for more than one airport (also the nearby military base).

Not sure if this is correct, its just a theory.

Edit: now I’m thinking about it, in Sweden everything is called “Sweden control”, I doubt there is an airport called Sweden :joy:. Maybe you are right and they’ve never updated the name after receiving radar equipment.

So, the Malmö radar (control) is not correct? I know that ATC coverage areas and names are still totally off at some places and going back to the FSX or even FS9 times. For example in former Yugolavia pretty much everything is still “Belgrade center” without any clue about Kosovo, Bosnia or Montenegro. I still did’t try to fly over the Atlantic ocean, but back in FSX and P3D there was still ATC control in the middle of nowhere, unlike in real life where having to fly over f.ex. Northern areas your ATC would be termimated as you cross Gander. And I better be quite about how well up to date are the airport names and codes :wink:

MSFS also uses “Blade Elements”. But their implementation is slightly different. So they call their version “Surface Elements Model”. But the underlying principle is essentially the same.

Malmo radar is correct if memory serves me well, I have been flying there. Gotenborg is called “control”, I honestly don’t know what the difference is. In any case “center” is incorrect, at least as far as ICAO / Europe goes. But this is all off topic :joy:.

I mean that the nationwide Swedish ATC called “Malmö center” instead of “Sweden control” in the game by default, and not just Malmö airport.

The call signs of ATCs do not seem to follow a general pattern when looking at the various countries. Eg. Langen Radar can perform a Center role but also, depending on what frequency you call, approach/ departure control. All are radar equipped and happened to be located in the city of Langen and cover the airspace around EDDF.