First up this is a general point not specifically a HC related one so I don’t need to do anything with them luckily. Not all situations are the same and despite what may be said it’s not just simply always the way that you can get your money back. Some may of paid by direct deposit or PayPal and both those have complications. So yes there are folks who will have lost money and can’t get it back. Shelling out further money without any guarantee of success is not an option.
I thought it was obvious what the only satisfactory way to fix situations like this is. Fulfilling the agreed upon contract of course.
I’m not in the slightest bit angry at this - I have been wary of Honeycomb for a good few years now, so wouldn’t dream of purchasing anything from them - however, having been involved in the legal system for a number of years, I’m just calling out impropriety where I see it, because the way in which this debacle has been dealt with is just plain wrong.
The letter that’s been posted is bluster, the fact of the matter is that the company had been mismanaged by the owner pretty much from the outset - maybe they have a great design and engineering background, but they clearly have had absolutely no idea how to run a company or have any idea about how the financial aspects work.
As a result, many innocent parties have handed over money in good faith which they will not be able to claim for - there are very specific rules regarding claiming funds back depending on the circumstances - PayPal for example are time limited, and if a bank debit card has been used instead of a credit card there’s no direct right to claim a refund from the issuer, etc.
These are just two examples where people have been unjustly treated by a company who, let’s not forget, appeared at FS Expo 23 peddling their wares and mentioning upcoming product launches, at a time when they knew full well about the financial difficulties and mismanagement of their company. If you can’t see the problem with that, then fair enough, but Honeycomb really don’t deserve any sympathy or support from consumers at this time… They should’ve come clean a very long time ago.
Wow. Sounds like Nicky got screwed by his “longtime trusted friend” scumbag business partner. Assuming that what Nicky says is true…Scam artists like his ex-partner infuriate me - even if I don’t have any skin in the game.*
I own an Alpha/Bravo, and they’ve been great.
*By “no skin” I mean mine were bought, paid for, and delivered two years ago, and thankfully have been working great since then.
As an owner of an Alpha and a Bravo I don’t care that much if HC are or are about to go out of business or not. I care that there are no similar products out there offering this level of quality and features at this price range. It’s either the shoddy Saitek yokes or $1000 metal yokes which aren’t even available worldwide, especially now that Fulcrum went bust. Not to mention the Bravo, which doesn’t have an equivalent at any price.
Now I’m a sad panda that HC are having so much trouble.
Can’t speak about the Bravo as I got my pre-order cancelled back in the day, so went and got 2 Logitech throttles instead. ‘Limited’ to 12 buttons between the two, but to be fair they work.
As for the yokes, I’ve said before, my Alpha is showing signs of age and the yoke buttons and hat-switch are mostly inop, so I’ll be on the lookout for a non Honeycomb solution sooner than I imagine.
Won’t go Logitech/Seitek or the mega expensive offerings.
For me it’s down to the Turtlebeach or the Thrustmaster Boeing.
The Turtlebeach would make my Logitechs redundant, but I sure as heck want a trim. I want a trimwheel dash-it << censored? !
The Thrustmaster is a good and established name in flight sim, and the yoke looks very capable.
Time to get my research and review hat on, and make a decision m’thinks.
Often reported as a negative. I don’t doubt that it’s an issue, however I used one for well over a year and never experienced it. So it’s hard to judge just “how bad” someone will think it is, if they even notice it at all.
Not how it works here in the states. You have a window of time to get your money back on a charge back and it isn’t very long usually 90-120 days. Beyond that you are out of luck. If you used a debit card instead of a credit card you really don’t have any rights for a refund.
Until HC makes it right for those people they deserve none of our money.
I of course don’t know the extent of the liability that HC has, but it seems to me that Logitech buying them would be a no-brainer. The HC product line fits perfectly above their existing controllers. I would guess that Logitech has been losing loads of sales of their Saitek products to HC for a few years now. HC had a new upgraded Alpha Yoke I was looking to purchase soon. Lots of potential there for a new owner if they can deal with the present debt. Let’s hope so.
The original Alpha did have issues for some users with it’s use of mechanical rather than digital sensors, the new version looked a lot better and overcame some of the criticism that the original Alpha with mechanical sensors was not quite up to scratch for the price point.
This whole situation with Honeycomb (and also Fulcrum for that matter) is unfortunate. We were finally getting some innovation and competition in the mid-price part of the market.
I mean there’s still a good chance they can turn it around at HC. Granted it won’t be easy and they’ll have to regain lots of trust from the community, but it’s not impossible. I’m rooting for them but I’m also very disappointed how all this was handled.
Why do people ‘pre-order’? It doesn’t make sense to me. That’s paying money for something that does not or may never exist. It makes more sense to order/pay for a product that is in stock ready for shipment. It’s risky enough purchasing on-line.
There are two different issues. There is ChargeBack. So you buy something that is wrong or doesnt work. First port of call is a Refund from the seller if that doesnt work then there is Chargeback on the CreditCard Company. (we in europe use the same credit cards as you do). time limit may apply.
But there is a different legal obligation when something hasnt been delivered and the manufacturer says it probably wont be. OR the delivery time promised (forms part of the agreement) isnt honoured.
Now you have the exact same claim on the CreditCard company as you have against the seller. Because in Law, the Credit Card Company is a full partner in the transaction.
Now, unless US commerce Law and Law on Contract is totally scewed against basic human commercial rights, surely the same applies in the USA?
time limit should not apply.
But I accept that as a consumer you arent protected well in the US, at least not as well as we are in Europe so it would not surprise me if in the second case the US Banks can also walk away. Basic Law of Contract.
If you live in the USA, and never received a Honeycomb product that you ordered online, these articles from the Federal Trade Commission might be of interest if you have not seen them already:
What To Do if You’re Billed for Things You Never Got: Includes a useful “In a nutshell” chart, plus:
“The Fair Credit Billing Act treats certain credit card charges that you dispute as billing errors. Billing errors include charges for items that you didn’t accept or that weren’t delivered as agreed, involved the wrong amount, were unauthorized, and certain others. Disputes about the quality of the item are not billing errors.” Links to:
Using Credit Cards and Disputing Charges:
“Sometimes a company may bill you twice for the same thing — or bill you for something you either returned or never got. Federal law (the Fair Credit Billing Act, or FCBA) sets out a dispute process to help you get those mistakes fixed on credit cards and revolving charge accounts (like open-end credit accounts)…”